请不要火焰！极限编程！ [英] Without a flame please! Extreme Programming!

问题描述

大家好，


这个主板上是否有其他人感觉极限编程（尽管）

制作一些优点是有点过头，极端而且很简单

胡说八道？


Stede

Hi all,

Is there anyone else on this board that feels Extreme Programming (although)
making some great points is a little overcooked, extreme and just plain
nonsense at times?

Stede

推荐答案

你好codemonk。我没有真正看过XP，但我已经意味着

多年来 - 所以我会对你的观点非常感兴趣以及为什么你有这样的
在我开始之前得出那些结论。


我相信其他人会有智慧不要因为你因为你b $ b表达的而激怒你意见。

-

最诚挚的问候，


Mark


Mark Broadbent


mcad，mcdba，mcse + i

emailto：newsgroupsATmettayyaDOTgotadslDOTcoDOTuk

删除AT与''''和DOT' '。'' - 请不要发送垃圾邮件或地址将

更改！

" codemonk" <共****** @ verizon.net>在消息中写道

新闻：％2 ****************** @ TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl ...

Hi codemonk. I''ve not really looked too much into XP but I''ve been meaning
to for ages -so I would be VERY interested on your views AND WHY you have
come to those conclusions before I get started.

I''m sure others will have the intelligence not to flame you just because you
are expressing an opinion.
--
Best Regards,

Mark

Mark Broadbent

mcad,mcdba,mcse+i
emailto: newsgroupsATmettayyaDOTgotadslDOTcoDOTuk
remove AT with ''@'' and DOT with ''.'' -please do not send spam or address will
be changed!
"codemonk" <co******@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:%2******************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

大家好，

这块板上是否有其他人感觉极限编程
（虽然）
制作一些好点有点过度烹饪，极端而且简单明了
有时候胡说八道？

Stede

Hi all,

Is there anyone else on this board that feels Extreme Programming
(although)
making some great points is a little overcooked, extreme and just plain
nonsense at times?

Stede

我认为你需要挑选和选择所有方法什么

适用于您提供的特定解决方案。 XP的某些方面是有价值的，有些（比如对编程）我不在乎，虽然

这确实有指导价值。


我从XP中获得的最好的东西可能就是只生成

将为你的项目增加价值的工件。我个人喜欢混合使用XP和RUP。


Mike


" codemonk" <共****** @ verizon.net>在消息中写道

新闻：％2 ****************** @ TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl ...

I think as with all of the methodologies you have to pick and chose what
works for the particular solution you are providing. Some aspects of XP are
valuable, whaereas some (like pair programming) I don''t care for, although
this does have a mentoring value.

Probably the best thing I get from XP is to only produce the artifacts that
will add value to your project. Personally I like a mix of XP and RUP.

Mike

"codemonk" <co******@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:%2******************@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...

大家好，

这块板子上是否还有其他人感觉极限编程
（虽然）制作一些好点有点过度烹饪，极端而且只是简单的无意义的废话？

Stede

Hi all,

Is there anyone else on this board that feels Extreme Programming (although) making some great points is a little overcooked, extreme and just plain
nonsense at times?

Stede

你好Stede，

Hi Stede,

有没有人在这个感觉极限编程的板子上还有b $ b（虽然）制作一些优点是有点过度烹饪，极端而且只是简单的无意义的废话？

Is there anyone else on this board that feels Extreme Programming (although) making some great points is a little overcooked, extreme and just plain
nonsense at times?

老实说，围绕XP的大部分热量都来自追随者，他们坚持认为它解决了所有问题，但显然没有。在

另一方面，现有方法已被证明不起作用。添加更多

和更多的项目管理，没有良好的实践，并没有降低成本软件或更高质量的软件或更及时的软件。由于这种缺乏成功而导致的真空吸尘器，XP就像一匹白马，很多人都认为不同更好，因为它有所不同。


最大的XP项目，以及让整个运动得以实现的项目，是克莱斯勒的C3项目，它失败了（有时候）肯特出版了

书后）。也许这就是为什么Kent Beck在XP上没有给出很多话题的原因

更多。他也看到了结果，并且知道没有多少夸张的事情会让一个失败的项目成为一个成功的项目。


现在我已经完成了在XP上的跳跃，让我说我已经成为了过去几年的agilist。换句话说，我经常使用XP中支持的许多

实践以及Scrum等其他敏捷方法。事实上，我花了很多时间成为一名认证Scrum Master，而我现在正在写一本关于在系统分析中使用敏捷方法的书。


根据我的经验，我会鼓励所有读者阅读Kent Beck的书：

Extreme Programming，Embrace Change （怀着一种健康的怀疑态度......

他的一些结论是天真的，但他的做法很健全，而且他们很多都是为小型项目工作的）。然后，阅读敏捷项目管理与

Scrum。作者：Ken Schwaber。我发现，通过将scrum实践与用于开发的XP实践相结合，您的项目确实移动得更快，

并且您确实以更低的成本提供更多，及时。


我有时候几乎不相信，但是看看我自己的项目时间表，

我看到的是谁我工作了80个小时，而且我的软件已经进行了大量的单元测试，而且我看到很少有人没有要求的功能，并且

我看到了这个业务参与决策过程的用户。我看到

工作的东西比以往任何时候都要多。 （我的组织

在顶部仍然有点闷，但在底部，部门是鼓励找到一种有效的方法，让事情有效 ;所以我们已经有了尝试这个的能力。）


一个我没想到的成功：我们已经一直在忙着向我们在印度的供应商和员工出口Agile

流程。他们并没有为它准备好b / b，但已经接受了提供更好的客户的机会

满意度。我认为现在它的效果非常好。


所以，不要因为有时候狂野的眼睛而需要整个敏捷联盟。

XP的一些粉丝的性质。这样做就好像在一些激进分子的基础上判断整个宗教......这既不公平也不平衡。我不相信所有这些过程都适用于所有

场景。另一方面，许多人在大多数情况下工作，有些人会为了保存一个否则会失败的项目而工作，所以这些东西应该是共享的./ br
。 />

这是我的意见......本周无论如何...


---尼克

To be honest, much of the heat surrounding XP comes from followers who
insist that it solves every problem, which it clearly does not. On the
other hand, the existing methods have been proven not to work. Adding more
and more project management, without good practices, has not yeilded lower
cost software or higher quality software or more timely software. Into the
vacuum caused by this lack of success, XP rode like a white horse, and many
people decided that "different is better because it''s different."

The largest XP project, and the one that got the whole movement going, was
Chrysler''s C3 project, and it failed (sometime after Kent published the
book). Perhaps that''s why Kent Beck doesn''t give many topics on XP any
more. He''s seen the results too, and knows that no amount of hyperbole will
take a failing project and make it into a successful one.

Now that I''m done jumping on XP, let me say that I have become, over the
past few years, an "Agilist." In other words, I regularly use many of the
practices espoused in XP as well as other Agile methods like Scrum. In
fact, I have taken the time to become a Certified Scrum Master and I am
currently writing a book on the use of agile methods in Systems Analysis.

From my experience, I would encourage all readers to read Kent Beck''s book:
"Extreme Programming, Embrace Change" (with a healthy dose of skepticism...
some of his conclusions are naive, but his practices are sound and many of
them work for small projects). Then, read "Agile Project Management with
Scrum" by Ken Schwaber. I have found that, by combining Scrum practices for
PM, with XP practices for development, your projects really do move faster,
and you really do deliver more for less, in a timely manner.

I almost don''t believe it sometimes, but I look at my own project schedules,
and I see people who aren''t working 80 hour weeks, and I software that has
extensive unit tests, and I see very few features that no one asked for, and
I see the business users involved in the decision making process. I see
things working like they should more so than ever before. (my organization
is still at little stuffy at the top, but at the bottom, the departments are
encouraged to "find a way that works, and make things work", so we''ve had
the ability to try this out.)

One success that I didn''t expect: we''ve been busy exporting the Agile
processes to our vendors and employees in India. They were NOT prepared for
it, but have embraced the opportunity to provide better customer
satisfaction. I think it is working pretty well there now.

So, don''t pan the entire Agile Alliance because of the sometimes "wild-eyed"
nature of some of the followers of XP. To do so would be like judging an
entire religion on the basis of a few radicals... it is neither fair nor
balanced. I do not believe that all of these processes work in all
scenarios. On the other hand, many do work in most scenarios, and some will
work to save a project that otherwise would fail, so this stuff should be
shared.

That''s my opinion... this week anyway...

--- Nick

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