关于Python Redesign的评论 [英] Comments on Python Redesign
问题描述
Terry Ready说：
Terry Ready said:
YUCK< YUCK< YUCK。
< snip>
花粉网站是我见过的最糟糕的网站之一。样机页面
有一种很小的类型，IE不会放大。
< snip>
我关心网站的物理可读性，它仍然是信息的载体，而不是幼稚的自负。
< snip>
使用IE6，我需要一个放大镜来阅读这个页面。这是以我们知道
比你应该拥有的类型大小更好的傲慢风格完成的。也被称为
''控制用户体验''学校。可怕。对我来说，这是我见过的最糟糕的一页。反Pythonic。
YUCK< YUCK< YUCK.
<snip>
The pollenation site is one of the worst I have seen. The mockup page
has teeny type that IE will not enlarge.
<snip>
I care that the site remain physically readable and that it remain a
vehicle for information rather than childish egos.
<snip>
Using IE6, I need a magnifying glass
to read this page. This is done in the arrogant style of ''we know
better than you what type size you should have''. Also known as the
''control the user experience'' school. Awful. For me, one of the
worse pages I have ever seen. Anti-Pythonic.
内页：只是略好一点。低对比度灰色灰色评论页面也几乎无法读取。 （其他人报道的相同。）对于我不太完美的50岁以上的眼睛，这是我见过的最糟糕的评论页面。这是一个反可访问性设计的案例研究。负责人不应该触摸我们的网站。
interior page: Only slightly better. The low contrast gray-on-gray comments page is
also barely readable. (Others reported the same.) For my
less-than-perfect 50+ year-old eyes, it is physically the WORST
comments page I have ever seen. It is a case study in
anti-accessibility design. The person responsible should not touch
our site.
也许在网站上发表评论的人应该意识到这是一个
提案和正在进行的工作。作为有建设性的评论，我收集的唯一
反馈是字体太小而且
对比度稍微低一点。我调整了关键元素的对比度，并增加了
字体大小。这些页面在这里：
http ：//pollenation.net/assets/public/python-main-2.html
http://pollenation.net/assets/public...nterior-2.html
请注意，html页面是可访问的，因此
允许
文本调整大小这里是+1文本大小的样本。
http：// pollenation.net/assets/public...r-2larger.html
此外，Terry，设计是''形象''，''模型' '，''png''具体为
，
它没有规定字体大小。就可访问性而言，
只有
问题是对比度和字体大小我已经改变为
我赞
分别认为它们太低太小了。
虽然我同意字体大小应该更大，但是当前网站
是
不是可访问性的示例。以下示例取自我已经展示的
内部页面。第一个是与我原来的
设计相比较，第二个显示与修正显示正常的比较/>
和
+1字体大小。 （我的样本上的文字可能会受益于增加
行
身高使用css）
http://pollenation.net/assets/public...arison-new.gif
http://pollenation.net/assets /public...comparison.gif
作为附注，我没有去过任何控制用户的学校
体验''。此外，我认为发表评论，例如指责我有一个幼稚的自我和傲慢的人是IMO非常
不尊重
，我很感激道歉。我非常伤心和失望
看到
这些关于我认为值得尊重的论坛讨论的内容
虽然我很有信心他们不具代表性。
Tim Parkin
特里：我对其他细节没有太多关注，因此没有b $ b贡献很多。
Perhaps the people who have commented on the site should realise it''s a
proposal and a work in progress. As constructive comments go the only
feedback I have gathered is that the fonts are too small and the
contrast is
a little low. I''ve adjusted contrast on key elements and also increased
the
font size. These pages are here :
http://pollenation.net/assets/public/python-main-2.html
http://pollenation.net/assets/public...nterior-2.html
also bearing in mind that the html page will be accessible and hence
allow
text resizing here is a sample of +1 text size.
http://pollenation.net/assets/public...n-2larger.html
http://pollenation.net/assets/public...r-2larger.html
Also, Terry, the design was an ''image'', a ''mockup'', a ''png'' to be
specific,
it did not dictate font size. As far as accessibility is concerned, the
only
problem was the contrast and the font size both of which I''ve changed as
I
agree they were too low and too small respectively.
Although I agree that the font size should be bigger, the current site
is
not an exemplar of accessibility. The following example taken from the
interior page I have shown.The first is in comparison with my original
design, the second show a comparison with the amendments showing normal
and
+1 font sizing. (the text on my samples may benefit from increasing the
line
height using css)
http://pollenation.net/assets/public...arison-new.gif
http://pollenation.net/assets/public...comparison.gif
As a side note, I haven''t been to any school of ''control the user
experience''. Furthermore I think making comments such as accusing me of
having a ''childish ego'' and being ''arrogant'' are IMO extremely
disrespectful
and I would appreciate an apology. I am quite hurt and dissapointed to
see
such coments on what I had considered a respectable forum for discussion
although I''m sure they are not representative.
Tim Parkin
Terry: I otherwise do not have too much concern about particulars and
therefore not much to contribute.
推荐答案
" Tim Parkin" < TI ******** @ pollenationinternet.com>在消息中写道
新闻：ma ********************************* @ python。或者g ...
[... snip ...]
"Tim Parkin" <ti********@pollenationinternet.com> wrote in message
news:ma*********************************@python.or g...
[...snip...]
也许在网站上发表评论的人应该意识到这是一个<提案和正在进行的工作。作为建设性意见，我收集的唯一反馈是字体太小而且
对比度有点低。我调整了关键元素的对比度，并增加了
字体大小。这些页面在这里：
Perhaps the people who have commented on the site should realise it''s a
proposal and a work in progress. As constructive comments go the only
feedback I have gathered is that the fonts are too small and the
contrast is
a little low. I''ve adjusted contrast on key elements and also increased
the
font size. These pages are here :
[...剪辑...]
我同意python.org网站可以使用一张脸 - 但是，我的关注
与所呈现的设计是一致的页面大小和/或浏览器
兼容性。如果你使用太多的新功能通过CSS进行设计
一些旧的浏览器会有渲染问题，如果你不使用CSS
布局那么你'将使用太多的图形。你应该记住
Python在国际上使用的事实。所以带宽，浏览器
兼容性和国际化都是非常有效的问题。
如果重新设计限制了可以访问它的人数信息
或阻碍他们访问相同的然后我会（-1）努力。
请记住，最受欢迎和使用最多的网站，即谷歌和
yahoo，在设计意义上非常无聊但是在图表中没有用于
可用性和可访问性。这是
内容的内容和可访问性使它们如此受欢迎。我会投票在任何python网站重新设计中模仿这些
属性。
- Jeff
[...snip...]
I agree that the python.org site could use a face-lift, however, my concern
with the design presented is along the lines of page size and/or browser
compatibility. If you design via CSS using too many of the newer features
some older browsers will have problems rendering, if you don''t use CSS for
that layout then you''ll be using too many graphics. You should keep in mind
the fact that Python is used internationally. So bandwidth, browser
compatibility and internationalization are all very valid concerns.
If the redesign limits the number of people who can access it''s information
or hinders their access to the same then I would be (-1) on the effort.
Remember, that the most popular and highly used sites, i.e. google and
yahoo, are quite boring in a design sense but are off the chart for
usability and accessibility. It''s the content and the accessibilty to that
content that has made them so popular. I would vote to emulate these
attributes in any python website redesign.
- Jeff
Tim Parkin写道：
Tim Parkin wrote:
作为旁注，我没有去过任何控制用户体验的学校。此外，我认为发表评论，比如指责我有一个幼稚的自我和傲慢，这对IMO非常不尊重，我会很感激道歉。我非常伤心，并且对于我认为是一个值得尊重的讨论论坛感到失望，虽然我确定他们不具代表性。
As a side note, I haven''t been to any school of ''control the user
experience''. Furthermore I think making comments such as accusing me of
having a ''childish ego'' and being ''arrogant'' are IMO extremely
disrespectful and I would appreciate an apology. I am quite hurt and
dissapointed to see such coments on what I had considered a respectable
forum for discussion although I''m sure they are not representative.
我今天代表那些手指讨厌的人道歉。蒂姆，
他们肯定错过了相对明确的警告，这些警告是这些
是*模型*，并张贴用于讨论目的。我同意
严厉的公众批评没有建设性的评论是完全没有根据的b $ b，并且在这里乱序，更不用说
（谢天谢地） ）相当不典型。
哎呀，我*已经阅读了几本关于可怕的网页设计的书籍，并且
的背景包含了相当多的排版和相关的
学习和工作，我并不认为这些页面很糟糕。我对这个夸张的评论感到震惊。
也许这些页面不适合* Python *的网页
网站，或者在某些屏幕上，颜色或尺寸看起来不是很好，但是至少有人正在尝试某些东西（*），并且
我希望你能够超越消极主义并坚持下去
足够长的时间来找到真正值得考虑的评论。
-Peter
（*）就个人而言，我从未想过现有网站是一个大问题，
然后我只是将网页视为一个搜索文本的简单方法
我仍然在很多时候使用Netscape 4.7，所以我显然不是这些改进的目标...... b br />
On behalf of those with the nasty fingers today, I apologize. Tim,
they must have missed the relatively clear warnings that these
are *mockups*, and posted for discussion purposes. I agree also
that harsh public criticism without constructive comments is
wholly unwarranted, and out of order around here, not to mention
(thankfully) rather atypical.
Heck, I *have* read several books on horrible web page design, and
have a background that includes a fair bit of typography and related
study and work, and I didn''t think the pages were bad. I''m a
little stunned by the hyperbolic comments.
Maybe the pages aren''t felt to be appropriate for *Python*''s web
site, or maybe on certain screens the colours or sizes don''t look
quite right, but at least somebody is trying something(*), and
I hope you''ll be able to rise above the negativism and stick it out
long enough to find any comments which truly merit consideration.
-Peter
(*) Personally, I never thought the existing site was a big problem,
but then I just view the web as a simple way to search for text
and I still use Netscape 4.7 much of the time, so I''m obviously not
the target for these improvements...
如果我的评论被误导和/或不合理，我会收回和/或道歉。
我没有注意到来自页面的演示是m一个死人的形象。我用模拟这个词误导了
。对我来说，即使填充了虚拟文本和存根链接，模拟页面也会有真正的html。虽然一架
模拟飞机不会飞，但它是一个真正的三维物体，而不是一个图像。
无论如何，这个页面看起来就像许多人一样我去过的页面
（通常是公司头版）我被骗了。
评论页面*是*直播，而不是图像。对我来说，这也是非常难以接受的痛苦和困难。
我通常不太关心别人对他们的网页做什么。如果我不能读取它，我会继续向数百万其他人中的一个争夺我的
注意力。然而，python.org是我经常访问的一个（前5名，肯定）
我真的很在意能够继续阅读它。
也许Python需要两个首页甚至两个站点。一个用于
IT经理的类型，你似乎是针对的，谁会留下深刻印象
的公司外观往往让我感到沮丧，而且一个用于
程序员只是在寻找信息。当前的网站，或许更多的是
更多的tweek，对后者来说非常好，但不是，我同意，对于
前者。
Terry J. Reedy
To the extent that my comments were misdirected and/or unwarrented, I
retract and/or apologize.
I did not notice that the demo fromt page is merely a dead image. I
was mislead by the word ''mock-up''. To me, a mock-up page would have
real html, even if filled with dummy text and stub links. While a
mock-up airplane does not fly , it is a real 3-d object, not an image.
In any case, the page looks enough like many live pages I have visited
(usually corporation front pages) that I was fooled.
The comments page *is* live, not an image. It was also unusually
painful and difficult for me to read.
I usually don''t care too much what people do with their pages. If I
can''t read it, I move on to one of the millions of others vying for my
attention. However, python.org is one I visit a lot (top 5, surely)
and I really care about being able to continue reading it.
Perhaps Python needs two front pages or even two sites. One for the
IT manager types that you seem to be aiming at, who would be impressed
by the corporate look that tends to depress me, and one for
programmers just looking for info. The current site, perhaps with
more tweeks, is pretty good for the latter but not, I would agree, for
the former.
Terry J. Reedy
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