设计挫折 - 这种情况经常发生在你身上...... [英] Design frustration - how often does this happen to you...
问题描述
我不确定这是一个问题还是更多的咆哮...但是我要求b $ b从其他开发者那里寻找一些输入。怎么
经常发生以下事情，你怎么处理
吧。
我正在咨询新的项目。最初我打算从外部系统获取数据
，然后每周将所需数据导入到我创建的标准化设计中。我知道我的
字段是什么，我需要做什么等等...我很高兴
的设计目前包含22个表格（它仍然
不包括我尚未设计的课程部分...所以它会从这里稍微增长
。导入的第一阶段已经写了
，我正在等待我的第一次真实数据转储。
这是我明白的地方。外部实体决定让它更有效率地让我访问他们的后端而不是
编程并保持每周转储...除此之外我会有
实时数据，我们不必担心数据滞后。从SQL链接
表！优秀......我想。每周为我节省一笔巨额的进口额外费用，我有实时数据！...他们真好！我很兴奋，然后去参加会议以获得对后端的访问权。
我现在回到我的电脑上，刚刚联系了5个对象
他们让我知道我需要得到我需要的数据。我看到的第一张桌子上有215列，其中第二张有72列，
第三张有140列...你得到了我的漂移。几乎没有列是
数字......几乎所有这些都是文本......我希望从这些非标准化的基表构建一个具有优美性能的系统。我感觉就像再次踩到后面的词，并抓住我需要的数据，
将它们吸进我的设计并忘记使用它们的后端。
我和我交谈过的人保证，我可以从设计中获得所需的所有数据
我确信每个查询都需要我
有罐头从他们的桌子上获得。
在我的上一个长期项目中，我有一个桌子的一个部分是
没有noramlized并被踩到了地上一些非常傲慢的新手B
新手。现在我正处于另一端，并且我看着b
看着怪异的非标准化的桌子，并期望与
一起工作，好像生活还好！顺便说一句......他们在这些表中每年都会在他们自己的独立表中存档信息
...
（我很肯定'这是出于性能原因。）但是，我工作的部门需要及时汇总数据。
（去年或者两年的数据）多年前等）这意味着
特定年份的硬编码表名。我觉得我在寻找
a设计的噩梦，但是如果我不使用这个设计，我就冒险踩到了一些脚趾上的b $ b。
你们当中有多少人面对过这个......以及你们将会做什么？你会不会反对他们的设计，或者考虑再次建立我自己的系统。
他们有一个有限的预算工作
。我知道我可以提供一个良好的系统，给定一个标准化的设计，
，它将做他们想要的一切，并有良好的性能。但它需要更长时间才能从头开始构建它。通过给我基础
表，他们认为这是一个巨大的开发时间，但是
我不确定我能否交付他们的系统他们需要......不，我可能会提供它，但是系统的性能将在厕所中考虑所有的搜索和查询所有
将需要的文本字段。
想要什么？！ INPUT！？对于一个不良情况的政治正确反应!!
我想如果我通过试图踩到一些脚趾而失去工作
建立一个标准化的系统太糟糕了......也许......我需要
这项工作，因为X-mas即将来临，但使用系统
即是如此远远不能对我的职业生涯有好处。该怎么做，
做什么...
预算，内部开发者，政治议程，一些精彩
开发人员生活中的事情。
我遇到过同样的情况。不要躺下。站起来，听到
。您有责任在客户的选择中告知客户潜在的问题
。清楚地告诉他们你认为应该做什么，
以及确切原因。然而，最终的决定始终是客户。
我保持会议记录和讨论内容，跟踪变更
请求和事情就像这样。通过这种方式，你可以随时说''我告诉
你这么''。它是如此令人满意，但要非常小心在你的客户组织中创造敌人
。我也去过那里。
一般来说，客户听。他们希望获得最好的成果。但
的预算可能会妨碍我们的控制，也可能是我们无法控制的。
你可以随时拒绝做这个工作。理由是你相信它可能会损害你的声誉，如果它真的很糟糕而且你的名字也参与其中。
我有时会花更多的时间在开发上，不收费，简单
因为我无法有意识地构建他们的预算可以承受的数据库类型。我宁愿吸收一些费用，并且对结果感到满意。
如果你需要钱，这是一个很难的，如果你需要钱，那就很难了你正在建立一个
的声誉。
杰夫
" BlueDolphin" < BL ************* @ hotmail.com>在消息中写道
新闻：fb ************************* @ posting.google.co m ... < blockquote class =post_quotes>我不确定这是一个问题还是更多的咆哮...但是我正在寻找其他开发人员对此的一些意见。
经常发生以下事情，你是如何处理的？
我正在咨询一个新项目。最初我打算从外部系统将数据转发给我，并将一周所需的数据导入到我创建的规范化设计中。我知道我的
字段是什么，我需要做什么等等......我很高兴
设计目前包括22个表（它仍然不包括一个课程我还没有设计过的部分......所以它会从这里略微增长）。导入的第一阶段已经写好了，我正在等待我第一次转储真实数据。
这是我明白的地方。外部实体决定让我更方便地访问他们的后端而不是编程和维护每周转储......除此之外我还有实时数据和我们不需要担心数据滞后。从SQL链接
表！优秀......我想。每周给我带来巨大的重要意义，我有实时数据！...他们真好！我很兴奋，然后去参加会议，以便进入后端。
我现在回到我的电脑上，只是链接了5个对象，他们把我带到了我需要的地方获取我需要的数据。我看到的第一张桌子里面有215根柱子，第二张桌子里有72根柱子，第三张桌子有140根柱子......你得到了我的漂移。几乎没有列是数字的...几乎所有列都是文本...我希望从这些非标准化的基表构建一个表现优秀的系统。我感觉就像是再次踩到后面的词，抓住我需要的数据，把它们吸进我的设计中，然后忘记使用他们的后端。
我和那些与我交谈过的人保证我可以从设计中获得我需要的所有数据，并确保我可以从他们的桌子上获取我需要的每个查询。
在我的上一个长期项目中，我有一张桌子的一部分没有被钉死，并被一些非常傲慢的新手闯入了地面。现在我正处于另一端，我正在看着怪异的非标准化的桌子，并希望与他们一起工作，好像生活还好！顺便说一句......他们将这些信息存放在这些表中，每年都在他们自己的独立表格中......
（我很确定这是出于性能原因。）但是我正在为之工作的部门需要及时汇总数据。
（从去年或两年前开始的数字等等）这意味着为特定的硬编码表名年份。我觉得我在寻找一个设计噩梦，但如果我不使用这个设计，我就冒险踩到一些脚趾。
有多少那你曾经面对过这个......你会做什么！？你会不会反对他们的设计，或者考虑再次构建我自己的系统。他们有一个有限的工作预算。我知道我可以提供一个良好的系统，给定一个标准化的设计，
将做他们想要的一切并具有良好的性能。但是从头开始构建它需要更长的时间。通过给我基础表，他们认为这是一个巨大的开发时间，但是我不确定我能为他们提供他们需要的系统......不，我<可能可以提供它，但系统的性能将在厕所中考虑所有搜索和查询所需的所有文本字段。
<思考？！ INPUT！？对于一个不良情况的政治正确回应!!
我想如果我通过尝试构建它们来踩到一些脚趾而失去了工作，那么标准化的系统就不会那么糟糕......也许......我需要这项工作，因为X-mas即将来临，但是使用一个迄今为止远离的系统对我的职业生涯来说并不好。该怎么做，
该做什么...
你已被骗了！
他们意识到他们无法以他们承诺的
格式/方式向您提供数据，所以他们已经把他们的头放在一起，来吧
up with a strategy，&请你让他们摆脱困境。实际上，
这个钩子现在已经很好地嵌入了真的在>你的<背部！现在很容易说，
但是你应该看到它会来......
在这个阶段，我认为最重要的是将（a）找出你真正需要满足的b $ b b老板;有时候不太清楚;然后（b）
与老板进行有效沟通，了解正在发生的事情。 >不要<
批评另一组，或者建议他们试图骗你！只需
确保你的老板知道这一切的影响，以及你之前向他承诺的
。
如果你认为它将>不<可以很容易地获得数据，
有效的麻烦可能是玩愚蠢的，&请求帮忙。 老板，我不确定
如何从他们的数据库中获取XYZ数据。我想问一个他们的
家伙几个小时的帮助。那可以吗？两周后，你的老板会问，
WTF正在进行中？ 好吧，我有点困惑。很清楚我们需要什么数据才能获得，但似乎无法向我展示如何从他们的数据库中获取它......
只是我的2c！
HTH，
TC
" BlueDolphin" < BL ************* @ hotmail.com>在消息中写道
新闻：fb ************************* @ posting.google.co m ... < blockquote class =post_quotes>我不确定这是一个问题还是更多的咆哮...但是我正在寻找其他开发人员对此的一些意见。
经常发生以下事情，你是如何处理的？
我正在咨询一个新项目。最初我打算从外部系统将数据转发给我，并将一周所需的数据导入到我创建的规范化设计中。我知道我的
字段是什么，我需要做什么等等......我很高兴
设计目前包括22个表（它仍然不包括一个课程我还没有设计过的部分......所以它会从这里略微增长）。导入的第一阶段已经写好了，我正在等待我第一次转储真实数据。
这是我明白的地方。外部实体决定让我更方便地访问他们的后端而不是编程和维护每周转储......除此之外我还有实时数据和我们不需要担心数据滞后。从SQL链接
表！优秀......我想。每周给我带来巨大的重要意义，我有实时数据！...他们真好！我很兴奋，然后去参加会议，以便进入后端。
我现在回到我的电脑上，只是链接了5个对象，他们把我带到了我需要的地方获取我需要的数据。我看到的第一张桌子里面有215根柱子，第二张桌子里有72根柱子，第三张桌子有140根柱子......你得到了我的漂移。几乎没有列是数字的...几乎所有列都是文本...我希望从这些非标准化的基表构建一个表现优秀的系统。我感觉就像是再次踩到后面的词，抓住我需要的数据，把它们吸进我的设计中，然后忘记使用他们的后端。
我和那些与我交谈过的人保证我可以从设计中获得我需要的所有数据，并确保我可以从他们的桌子上获取我需要的每个查询。
在我的上一个长期项目中，我有一张桌子的一部分没有被钉死，并被一些非常傲慢的新手闯入了地面。现在我正处于另一端，我正在看着怪异的非标准化的桌子，并希望与他们一起工作，好像生活还好！顺便说一句......他们将这些信息存放在这些表中，每年都在他们自己的独立表格中......
（我很确定这是出于性能原因。）但是我正在为之工作的部门需要及时汇总数据。
（从去年或两年前开始的数字等等）这意味着为特定的硬编码表名年份。我觉得我在寻找一个设计噩梦，但如果我不使用这个设计，我就冒险踩到一些脚趾。
有多少那你曾经面对过这个......你会做什么！？你会不会反对他们的设计，或者考虑再次构建我自己的系统。他们有一个有限的工作预算。我知道我可以提供一个良好的系统，给定一个标准化的设计，
将做他们想要的一切并具有良好的性能。但是从头开始构建它需要更长的时间。通过给我基础表，他们认为这是一个巨大的开发时间，但是我不确定我能为他们提供他们需要的系统......不，我<可能可以提供它，但系统的性能将在厕所中考虑所有搜索和查询所需的所有文本字段。
<思考？！ INPUT！？对于一个不良情况的政治正确回应!!
我想如果我通过尝试构建它们来踩到一些脚趾而失去了工作，那么标准化的系统就不会那么糟糕......也许......我需要这项工作，因为X-mas即将来临，但是使用一个迄今为止远离的系统对我的职业生涯来说并不好。该怎么做，
该做什么......
" Jeff Pritchard" < JE ************ @ asken.com.au>在留言中写道
新闻：Y％**************** @ news.optus.net.au ...
（snip）
我保持会议记录和讨论内容，跟踪变更请求和事情就像这样。通过这种方式，你可以随时说''我告诉你如此''。
是的：一次！
根据我的经验，造成问题最严重的客户总是至少<可能对自己的决定负责。那些
的客户不喜欢我告诉过你。他们更喜欢这都是我的错。
TC
I''m not sure if this is a question or more of a rant... but I''m
looking for some input on this from other developers out there. How
often has the following happened to you and how have you dealt with
it.
I am consulting on a new project. Originally I was going to get data
dumped to me from an external system, and import the needed data once
a week into a normalized design that I had created. I knew what my
fields were going to be, what I needed to do, etc... I was pleased
with the design which currently consists of 22 tables (It still
excludes a course section that I haven''t designed yet... So it would
grow slightly from here). The first phase of the import had been
written and I was waiting for my first dump of real data.
This is where I get to the point. The external entity decided that it
would be more efficient to give me access to their back-end instead of
programming and maintaining a weekly dump... Besides I would have the
live data and we wouldn''t need to worry about data lags. Link the
tables in from SQL! EXCELLENT... I thought. Saves me a huge import
from week to week, I have real time data!... How nice of them!!! I
got all excited and went to the meeting to get access to the back end.
I am back at my PC now and have just linked in the 5 objects that
they totld me I needed to get the data I required. The first table I
am looking at has 215 columns in it, the second has 72 columns in it,
the third has 140... you get my drift. Almost NONE of the columns are
numeric... almost ALL of them are text... and I am expected to build a
beautifully performing system from these unnormalized base tables. I
feel like stepping backwords again, and grabbing the data I need,
sucking them into my design and forgetting about using their back-end.
I am assured by the people I spoke with that I can get all data that
I need from the design and was assured that every query need that I
have can be aquired from their tables.
On my last long term project, I had one section of one table that was
not noramlized and got trampled into the ground by some very arrogant
newbies fresh out of school. Now I''m on the opposite end and am
looking at monstrously unnormalized tables and expected to work with
them as if life is fine! By the way... they archive the information
in these tables from year to year in their own stand alone tables...
(I''m sure that''s for performance reasons.) However, the department I
am working for has a need to aggregate the data backwards in time.
(number crunches from last year or two years ago etc.) This means
hardcoding table names for specific years. I feel like I''m looking at
a design nightmare, but if I don''t use the design, I risk stepping on
some toes.
How many of you out there have been faced with this... and what would
you do!? Would you move forward against their design, or consider
building my own system once again. They have a finite budget to work
with. I know I can deliver a good system given a normalized design,
which will do everything they want and have good performance. But it
will take longer to build it from scratch. By giving me the base
tables, they are looking at it as a huge cut in development time, but
I''m not sure I can deliver them the system that they need... No I
probably can deliver it, but the performance of the system will be in
the toilet considering all of the searching and querying against all
of the text fields that will be required.
THOUGHTS?! INPUT!? POLITICALLY CORRECT RESPONSES TO A BAD SITUATION!!
I guess if I lost the job from stepping on some toes by trying to
build them a normalized system wouldn''t be so bad... maybe... I need
the work since X-mas is around the corner, but working with a system
that is so far off can''t be good for my career anyway. What to do,
what to do...
Budgets, internal developers, political agendas, some of the wonderful
things in a developers life.
I have been faced with the same situations. Do not lay down. Stand up and be
heard. You have a responsibility to advise the client of potential problems
in their choices. Clearly advise them of what you believe should be done,
and exactly why. However, the final decision is always the clients.
I maintain a record of meeting and what was discussed, to track change
requests and things just like this. In this way you can always say ''I told
you so''. It is ever so satisfying, but be very careful of creating enemies
in your clients organisation. I have been there as well.
Generally, clients listen. They want the best that can be achieved. But
budgets can get in the way, and can be out of our control, clients as well.
You can always refuse to do the job on the grounds that you believe it may
compromise your reputation if it goes really bad and your name is involved.
I have at times spent much more time on development, uncharged, simply
because I can''t in all conscious build the type of database that their
budget can afford. I would rather absorb some of the cost and be happy with
the result.
It is a hard one if you need the money, an easy one if you are building a
reputation.
Jeff
"BlueDolphin" <bl*************@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fb*************************@posting.google.co m...I''m not sure if this is a question or more of a rant... but I''m
looking for some input on this from other developers out there. How
often has the following happened to you and how have you dealt with
it.
I am consulting on a new project. Originally I was going to get data
dumped to me from an external system, and import the needed data once
a week into a normalized design that I had created. I knew what my
fields were going to be, what I needed to do, etc... I was pleased
with the design which currently consists of 22 tables (It still
excludes a course section that I haven''t designed yet... So it would
grow slightly from here). The first phase of the import had been
written and I was waiting for my first dump of real data.
This is where I get to the point. The external entity decided that it
would be more efficient to give me access to their back-end instead of
programming and maintaining a weekly dump... Besides I would have the
live data and we wouldn''t need to worry about data lags. Link the
tables in from SQL! EXCELLENT... I thought. Saves me a huge import
from week to week, I have real time data!... How nice of them!!! I
got all excited and went to the meeting to get access to the back end.
I am back at my PC now and have just linked in the 5 objects that
they totld me I needed to get the data I required. The first table I
am looking at has 215 columns in it, the second has 72 columns in it,
the third has 140... you get my drift. Almost NONE of the columns are
numeric... almost ALL of them are text... and I am expected to build a
beautifully performing system from these unnormalized base tables. I
feel like stepping backwords again, and grabbing the data I need,
sucking them into my design and forgetting about using their back-end.
I am assured by the people I spoke with that I can get all data that
I need from the design and was assured that every query need that I
have can be aquired from their tables.
On my last long term project, I had one section of one table that was
not noramlized and got trampled into the ground by some very arrogant
newbies fresh out of school. Now I''m on the opposite end and am
looking at monstrously unnormalized tables and expected to work with
them as if life is fine! By the way... they archive the information
in these tables from year to year in their own stand alone tables...
(I''m sure that''s for performance reasons.) However, the department I
am working for has a need to aggregate the data backwards in time.
(number crunches from last year or two years ago etc.) This means
hardcoding table names for specific years. I feel like I''m looking at
a design nightmare, but if I don''t use the design, I risk stepping on
some toes.
How many of you out there have been faced with this... and what would
you do!? Would you move forward against their design, or consider
building my own system once again. They have a finite budget to work
with. I know I can deliver a good system given a normalized design,
which will do everything they want and have good performance. But it
will take longer to build it from scratch. By giving me the base
tables, they are looking at it as a huge cut in development time, but
I''m not sure I can deliver them the system that they need... No I
probably can deliver it, but the performance of the system will be in
the toilet considering all of the searching and querying against all
of the text fields that will be required.
THOUGHTS?! INPUT!? POLITICALLY CORRECT RESPONSES TO A BAD SITUATION!!
I guess if I lost the job from stepping on some toes by trying to
build them a normalized system wouldn''t be so bad... maybe... I need
the work since X-mas is around the corner, but working with a system
that is so far off can''t be good for my career anyway. What to do,
what to do...
You''ve been conned!
They realized they were not going to be able to provide you the data in the
format/manner that they promised, so they''ve put their heads together, come
up with a strategy, & conned you into letting them off the hook. In fact,
that hook is now embedded well & truly in >your< back! It''s easy to say now,
but you should maybe have seen tht coming...
At this stage, I think the most critical thing will be to (a) work out which
boss you really have to satisfy; sometimes that is not so clear; then (b)
communicate effectively with that boss, about what is going on. >Do not<
criticize the other group, or suggest that they have tried to con you! Just
make sure you''re boss is aware of the impact of all this, on what you
promised to him before.
If you beleve that it will >not< be possible to get the data out easily, an
effective straegy might be to play dumb, & ask for help. "Boss, I''m not sure
how to get the XYZ data out of their database. I''d like to ask one of their
guys for a few hours help. Is that ok?" Two weeks later, your boss will ask,
"WTF is going on?" "Well, I''m a bit confused. It''s quite clear what data we
need, but don''t seem able to show me how to get it from their database...".
Just my 2c!
HTH,
TC
"BlueDolphin" <bl*************@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:fb*************************@posting.google.co m...I''m not sure if this is a question or more of a rant... but I''m
looking for some input on this from other developers out there. How
often has the following happened to you and how have you dealt with
it.
I am consulting on a new project. Originally I was going to get data
dumped to me from an external system, and import the needed data once
a week into a normalized design that I had created. I knew what my
fields were going to be, what I needed to do, etc... I was pleased
with the design which currently consists of 22 tables (It still
excludes a course section that I haven''t designed yet... So it would
grow slightly from here). The first phase of the import had been
written and I was waiting for my first dump of real data.
This is where I get to the point. The external entity decided that it
would be more efficient to give me access to their back-end instead of
programming and maintaining a weekly dump... Besides I would have the
live data and we wouldn''t need to worry about data lags. Link the
tables in from SQL! EXCELLENT... I thought. Saves me a huge import
from week to week, I have real time data!... How nice of them!!! I
got all excited and went to the meeting to get access to the back end.
I am back at my PC now and have just linked in the 5 objects that
they totld me I needed to get the data I required. The first table I
am looking at has 215 columns in it, the second has 72 columns in it,
the third has 140... you get my drift. Almost NONE of the columns are
numeric... almost ALL of them are text... and I am expected to build a
beautifully performing system from these unnormalized base tables. I
feel like stepping backwords again, and grabbing the data I need,
sucking them into my design and forgetting about using their back-end.
I am assured by the people I spoke with that I can get all data that
I need from the design and was assured that every query need that I
have can be aquired from their tables.
On my last long term project, I had one section of one table that was
not noramlized and got trampled into the ground by some very arrogant
newbies fresh out of school. Now I''m on the opposite end and am
looking at monstrously unnormalized tables and expected to work with
them as if life is fine! By the way... they archive the information
in these tables from year to year in their own stand alone tables...
(I''m sure that''s for performance reasons.) However, the department I
am working for has a need to aggregate the data backwards in time.
(number crunches from last year or two years ago etc.) This means
hardcoding table names for specific years. I feel like I''m looking at
a design nightmare, but if I don''t use the design, I risk stepping on
some toes.
How many of you out there have been faced with this... and what would
you do!? Would you move forward against their design, or consider
building my own system once again. They have a finite budget to work
with. I know I can deliver a good system given a normalized design,
which will do everything they want and have good performance. But it
will take longer to build it from scratch. By giving me the base
tables, they are looking at it as a huge cut in development time, but
I''m not sure I can deliver them the system that they need... No I
probably can deliver it, but the performance of the system will be in
the toilet considering all of the searching and querying against all
of the text fields that will be required.
THOUGHTS?! INPUT!? POLITICALLY CORRECT RESPONSES TO A BAD SITUATION!!
I guess if I lost the job from stepping on some toes by trying to
build them a normalized system wouldn''t be so bad... maybe... I need
the work since X-mas is around the corner, but working with a system
that is so far off can''t be good for my career anyway. What to do,
what to do...
"Jeff Pritchard" <je************@asken.com.au> wrote in message
news:Y%****************@news.optus.net.au...
(snip)
I maintain a record of meeting and what was discussed, to track change
requests and things just like this. In this way you can always say ''I told
you so''.
Yep: once!
In my experience, the clients who cause the most problems, are always theleast< likely to accept responsibility for their own decisions. Those
clients do not like "I told you so". They much prefer "It''s all my fault".
TC
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