叫嚷。难以学习ETL工具？ [英] Rants. Difficulty to learn ETL tools?
问题描述
亲爱的专家，
自1995年以来我一直在使用Oracle。我已经非常深入地了解了许多Oracle功能，包括
sqlloader和导出/导入。我已经完成了数据建模甚至更长时间的建模。
与此同时，我从1995年开始做ETL.
虽然，在Proc和PLSQL，sqlloader，level。
映射数据。从源代码中获取数据，执行所需的任何修改/转换，
并插入或更新。简单。确定映射的难点是
。
但是我还没有机会使用ETL工具来完成工作，例如：
Informatica，DataStage，Ascential，Ab Initio
我所拥有的一点点经验，
显示Informatica是 - 令人难以置信的 - 易于使用。
这是一个GUI。这很简单!!!
我错过了很多机会
因为我没有几年的经验
使用ETL工具。这看起来很奇怪，因为
工具看起来需要最多一周学习！
这些ETL工具有多难学习？
特别是如果你已经使用了
Oracle，并且自1995年开始进行数据映射和加载？
我想它不可能是很难。
当你搜索新闻组时，这些工具没有新闻组
。虽然制作它们的公司可能有自己的新闻组。
关于这些工具的书籍也不多。
如果你搜索对于Oracle或SQL Server上的书籍，
你会发现很多非常大的，详细的b
书。但是在各种ETL工具上几乎没有什么特别的
。
任何这些工具的任何认证看起来都是
到比甲骨文简单得多。
对我来说，真正的问题是映射。如果你进入一个新的环境，那么数据映射
对这些系统来说是完全深奥的。
没有多少ETL工具的经验或者任何
工具，会告诉你映射应该是什么。
问题：
- 这些ETL工具有多难学习
获得体验Oracle专业版的体验？
- 除了GUI之外，让一切变得简单易用，
使用ETL工具的优势是什么？
- ETL工具内置的功能是什么？b $ b有，这在PLSQL中是不是可以做到的？
非常感谢！
Dear Experts,
I''ve worked with Oracle since 1995. I have gone
very deep into many of the Oracle features, including
sqlloader, and export/import. And I''ve done data
modelling even longer.
At the same time, I have done ETL since 1995.
Although, at the Proc, and PLSQL, sqlloader, level.
Map the data. Take data from the source, do any
modifications/transformations that are required,
and insert or update. Easy. The hard part is
determining the mappings.
But I have not been given the opportunity to
work much with ETL tools such as:
Informatica, DataStage, Ascential, Ab Initio
The little bit of experience that I do have,
showed that Informatica was -incredibly- easy to use.
It''s a GUI. It''s SUPPOSED to be simple!!!
I have missed out on a number of opportunities
because I didn''t have a few YEARS of experience
with ETL tools. Which seems odd, because the
tool looks like it requires a max of a week to learn!
Just how difficult are these ETL tools to learn?
Especially if you have already been working with
Oracle, and doing data mappings and loads since 1995?
I''m thinking that it can''t be difficult at all.
When you search for newsgroups, there are no newsgroups
for these tools. Although the companies who make
them, might have their own newsgroup.
There are also not many books on these tools.
If you search for books on Oracle, or SQL Server,
you will find a lot of very big, and detailed
books. But there is next to nothing specifically
on the various ETL tools.
Any certifications for any of these tools look
to be much simpler than Oracle''s.
To me, the real issue is the mappings. If you
come into a new environment, the data mappings
are completely esoteric to those systems.
No amount of experience with an ETL tool, or any
tool, is going to tell you what the mappings should be.
Questions:
- Just how difficult are these ETL tools to learn
for an experience Oracle pro like myself?
- Other than a GUI, making everything simple to use,
just what are the advantages of using ETL tools?
- what built in functionality do ETL tools
have, that can''t be done in PLSQL?
Thanks a lot!
推荐答案
我使用了Data Junction，NEON（EDI / ETL工具来自Sybase）和DTS / SSIS。
根据我的经验，不论是否使用GUI，ETL工具都不容易掌握。他们可能很容易将简单的负载拼凑在一起。但是一旦你进入了超过那个
，它肯定需要时间和学习，并且练习才能变得非常有用/富有成效。这就是为什么公司希望看到几年
的经验。
-
TheSQLGuru
总统
Indicium Resources，Inc。
< db ***** @ yahoo.comwrote in message
news ：11 ********************** @ n59g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com ...
I have used Data Junction, NEON (EDI/ETL tool from Sybase) and DTS/SSIS.
ETL tools in my experience, GUI or not, are NOT easy to master. They may be
easy to slap together a simple load. But once you get into more than that
it definitely takes time and study and ''practice'' to become really
useful/productive with them. Which is why companies want to see a few years
experience.
--
TheSQLGuru
President
Indicium Resources, Inc.
<db*****@yahoo.comwrote in message
news:11**********************@n59g2000hsh.googlegr oups.com...
亲爱的专家，
自1995年以来我一直在使用Oracle。我已经非常深入地了解了许多Oracle功能，包括
sqlloader，以及导出/导入。我已经完成了数据建模甚至更长时间的建模。
与此同时，我从1995年开始做ETL.
虽然，在Proc和PLSQL，sqlloader，level。
映射数据。从源代码中获取数据，执行所需的任何修改/转换，
并插入或更新。简单。确定映射的难点是
。
但我还没有机会使用ETL工具来工作
例如：
Informatica，DataStage，Ascential，Ab Initio
我所拥有的一点点经验，
显示Informatica非常容易使用。
这是一个GUI。这很简单!!!
我错过了一些机会
因为我没有几年经验
使用ETL工具。这看起来很奇怪，因为
工具看起来需要最多一周才能学习！
这些ETL工具难以学习吗？ br />
特别是如果你已经使用了
Oracle，并且自1995年开始进行数据映射和加载？
我想它可以根本不困难。
当你搜索新闻组时，这些工具没有新闻组
。虽然制作它们的公司可能有自己的新闻组。
关于这些工具的书籍也不多。
如果您在Oracle或SQL Server上搜索图书，
，您会发现很多非常大且详细的书籍。但是在各种ETL工具上几乎没有什么特别的
。
任何这些工具的任何认证看起来都是
到比甲骨文简单得多。
对我来说，真正的问题是映射。如果你进入一个新的环境，那么数据映射
对这些系统来说是完全深奥的。
没有多少ETL工具的经验或者任何
工具，会告诉你映射应该是什么。
问题：
- 有多难这些ETL工具是否可以学习单独使用Oracle专业版的经验？
- 除了GUI之外，使一切都变得简单易用，
使用ETL工具的优点是什么？
- ETL工具内置的功能
有，不可能在PLSQL中完成了吗？
非常感谢！
Dear Experts,
I''ve worked with Oracle since 1995. I have gone
very deep into many of the Oracle features, including
sqlloader, and export/import. And I''ve done data
modelling even longer.
At the same time, I have done ETL since 1995.
Although, at the Proc, and PLSQL, sqlloader, level.
Map the data. Take data from the source, do any
modifications/transformations that are required,
and insert or update. Easy. The hard part is
determining the mappings.
But I have not been given the opportunity to
work much with ETL tools such as:
Informatica, DataStage, Ascential, Ab Initio
The little bit of experience that I do have,
showed that Informatica was -incredibly- easy to use.
It''s a GUI. It''s SUPPOSED to be simple!!!
I have missed out on a number of opportunities
because I didn''t have a few YEARS of experience
with ETL tools. Which seems odd, because the
tool looks like it requires a max of a week to learn!
Just how difficult are these ETL tools to learn?
Especially if you have already been working with
Oracle, and doing data mappings and loads since 1995?
I''m thinking that it can''t be difficult at all.
When you search for newsgroups, there are no newsgroups
for these tools. Although the companies who make
them, might have their own newsgroup.
There are also not many books on these tools.
If you search for books on Oracle, or SQL Server,
you will find a lot of very big, and detailed
books. But there is next to nothing specifically
on the various ETL tools.
Any certifications for any of these tools look
to be much simpler than Oracle''s.
To me, the real issue is the mappings. If you
come into a new environment, the data mappings
are completely esoteric to those systems.
No amount of experience with an ETL tool, or any
tool, is going to tell you what the mappings should be.
Questions:
- Just how difficult are these ETL tools to learn
for an experience Oracle pro like myself?
- Other than a GUI, making everything simple to use,
just what are the advantages of using ETL tools?
- what built in functionality do ETL tools
have, that can''t be done in PLSQL?
Thanks a lot!
好的。但是我还有问题。
是因为有3000个内置函数
和特定于ETL工具的命令，还有一个数字
新的范例，你首先必须掌握？
因为我没有看到工具上厚厚的书，
如果有的话，我不相信情况就是这样。
或者，新的深奥的映射本身是难的吗？他们总是如此。在这种情况下，我得出结论
，无论你是使用ETL工具还是
硬编码都没关系，这两种映射都很难。
实际上，我可以想象一个ETL工具实际上可能会让你失望，因为它的功能更加有限
比硬编码。在这种情况下，我可以理解
你需要花时间使用这个工具，试图获得它来做它没有设计的东西确实如此。
是这样的吗？
我的想法是可转让的技能组合。
如果有人知道C ++，他们可以比没有OO知识的人更容易学习java。如果一个人知道数据库
和SQL深度，并且可以硬编码ETL，这也是
a可转移技能集。
再次，问题：
- 这些ETL工具有多难以为像我这样经验丰富的Oracle专业人士学习
？
- 除了GUI之外，使一切变得简单易用，使用ETL工具有什么好处？
- 内置功能的ETL工具
有，在PLSQL中无法完成？
OK. But I still have questions.
Is it because there are 3000 built in functions
and commands specific to the ETL tool, and a number
of new paradigms, that you first have to master?
Since I don''t see big thick books on the tools,
if any, I don''t believe this is the case.
Or, is it that the new esoteric mappings themselves are
difficult? They always are. In which case, I conclude
that it doesn''t really matter whether you use an ETL tool, or
hard code it, the mappings will be difficult either way.
Actually, I can imagine that an ETL tool may actually
slow you down, because it''s more limited in functionality
than hard coding. In which case, I can understand that
you will need to spend time with the tool, trying to
get it to do the things that it wasn''t designed to do.
Is this the case?
The idea that I''m getting at is transferable skill sets.
If someone knows C++, they can learn java much easier
than one without the OO knowledge. If one knows databases
and SQL in depth, and can hard code ETL, this is also
a transferable skill set.
Again, Questions:
- Just how difficult are these ETL tools to learn
for an experienced Oracle pro like myself?
- Other than a GUI, making everything simple to use,
just what are the advantages of using ETL tools?
- what built in functionality do ETL tools
have, that can''t be done in PLSQL?
1）kajillion函数及其语法/调用机制是一个
''掌握''障碍。我会补充一点，因为没有足够的许可副本存在于这些
工具中，所以你没有看到它们的书籍
供出版商/作者制作任何金钱。
2）是的，EDI映射可能非常困难/复杂。有些工具比其他工具更好地处理这些不同的味道。我怀疑他们中的任何一个在那里的所有不同的规格都很好。
3）我同意ETL工具实际上是生产力的一个障碍
如果你不是那个工具界面，流逻辑，
4）就工具而言，我不相信会有这样的事情，除非他们中有几个使用VBScript（DataJunction
$） b $ b这样做）或其他一些。你与C ++ / Java或SQL的比较是有缺陷的，
那些非常有限，几乎是固定的
关键字/逻辑/处理。
回答你重复的问题：
A）我不认为ETL工具一定难以学习，他们会
只需花时间/练习。仍然，如果我我是一名招聘人员，我不会给你除了入门级以外的其他任何东西的时间
ETL工具工作，除非你已经有了丰富的经验和/或培训
我公司使用的产品。
B）ETL工具的主要优点是提供（可重复使用）
逻辑/流/解析框架和内置数据/文件功能
移动和错误处理。我不想手工制作一个系统，以便能够解析和处理ANSI X12文件!!
C）我不是对PLSQL有很多了解，但如果它是一个强大的G3 / 4语言，那么
非常好的数据处理，条件，程序和I / O功能那么你可能会滚动你的b $ b你自己的ETL吧。祝你好运，如果你想要b $ b尝试它。 :-)
-
TheSQLGuru
总统
Indicium Resources，Inc。
< db ***** @ yahoo.com写信息
新闻：11 *************** ******@y80g2000hsf.googlegro ups.com ...
1) The kajillion functions and their syntax/calling mechanisms is one
''masterization'' impediment. I will add that you don''t see books on these
tools simply because there isn''t enough licensed copies of them in existence
for publishers/authors to make any money.
2) Yes, EDI mappings can be extremely difficult/complex. Some tools handle
differing flavors of these better than others. I doubt any one of them does
well at all the different spec''s out there.
3) I agree that an ETL tool will actually be an IMPEDIMENT to productivity
IF you are not INTIMATELY FAMILIAR with that tools interface, flow logic,
conditional logic, and functional capabilities.
4) As far as the tools go, I do not believe there is such a thing as
''transferrable skills'', unless several of them use VBScript (DataJunction
does this) or some such. Your comparison to C++/Java or SQL is flawed, in
that those are VERY limited, pretty much fixed sets of
keywords/logic/processing.
To answer your reiterated questions:
A) I don''t think the ETL tools are necessarily difficult to learn, they will
just take time/practice with them. Still, if "I" were a recruiter, I
wouldn''t give you the time of day for anything other than an entry level
ETL-tool job unless you already had significant experience and /or training
on the product my company used.
B) The primary advantages to ETL tools are that that provide a (reusable)
framework for logic/flow/parsing and built in capabilities for data/file
movement and error handling. I would NOT want to hand-craft a system to be
able to parse and process an ANSI X12 document!!
C) I don''t know much about PLSQL, but if it is a robust G3/4 language with
very good data handling, conditional, procedural and I/O capabilities then
you probably could roll your own ETL with it. Good luck with that if you
try it. :-)
--
TheSQLGuru
President
Indicium Resources, Inc.
<db*****@yahoo.comwrote in message
news:11*********************@y80g2000hsf.googlegro ups.com...
好的。但是我还有问题。
是因为有3000个内置函数
和特定于ETL工具的命令，还有一个数字
的新范例，你首先必须掌握？
因为我没有看到工具上厚厚的书，
如果有的话，我不喜欢不相信是这种情况。
或者，新的深奥的映射本身是难的吗？他们总是如此。在这种情况下，我得出结论
，无论你是使用ETL工具还是
硬编码都没关系，这两种映射都很难。
实际上，我可以想象一个ETL工具实际上可能会让你失望，因为它的功能更加有限
比硬编码。在这种情况下，我可以理解
你需要花时间使用这个工具，试图获得它来做它没有设计的东西确实如此。
是这样的吗？
我的想法是可转让的技能组合。
如果有人知道C ++，他们可以比没有OO知识的人更容易学习java。如果一个人知道数据库
和SQL深度，并且可以硬编码ETL，这也是
a可转移技能集。
再次，问题：
- 这些ETL工具有多难以为像我这样经验丰富的Oracle专业人士学习
？
- 除了GUI之外，使一切变得简单易用，使用ETL工具有什么好处？
- 内置功能的ETL工具
有，在PLSQL中无法完成？
OK. But I still have questions.
Is it because there are 3000 built in functions
and commands specific to the ETL tool, and a number
of new paradigms, that you first have to master?
Since I don''t see big thick books on the tools,
if any, I don''t believe this is the case.
Or, is it that the new esoteric mappings themselves are
difficult? They always are. In which case, I conclude
that it doesn''t really matter whether you use an ETL tool, or
hard code it, the mappings will be difficult either way.
Actually, I can imagine that an ETL tool may actually
slow you down, because it''s more limited in functionality
than hard coding. In which case, I can understand that
you will need to spend time with the tool, trying to
get it to do the things that it wasn''t designed to do.
Is this the case?
The idea that I''m getting at is transferable skill sets.
If someone knows C++, they can learn java much easier
than one without the OO knowledge. If one knows databases
and SQL in depth, and can hard code ETL, this is also
a transferable skill set.
Again, Questions:
- Just how difficult are these ETL tools to learn
for an experienced Oracle pro like myself?
- Other than a GUI, making everything simple to use,
just what are the advantages of using ETL tools?
- what built in functionality do ETL tools
have, that can''t be done in PLSQL?
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