计算社区中的无知和不宽容 [英] ignorance and intolerance in computing communties

问题描述

今天，一个混蛋Christophe Rhodes（又名：Xof in irc：//chat.freenode.net/lisp

）踢了我的禁令。

这是'几个相关的摘录。 （如果有公共利益，完整的，未经编辑的摘录将是

）


开始摘录：


[早上5:31]< xahleek，这是一个简单的问题，但是很正常。

它是正确的。

....

[5:32 am]< xahleegiven单位向量A = {a1，a2}，写一个函数

AngleA，这样它返回从{1,0}到A的正角度。 />
[早上5:33]< xahleemathematically这很简单，但实现它

相当繁琐，有很多if语句。

[5： 34am]< xahleealso，任何已实现此功能的人都会知道。

很好。

[早上5:34]< xahleei想知道是否已经存在某个库中在口齿不清。

（我怀疑）

[早上5:36]< pjbxahlee :( acos（标量产品A＃（1 0）））


....


[早上6:34]< xahleecan有人给我看一个函数的源代码

将复数（a1 b2）转换为它的极值演示？

[早上6:35]< Xof（defun polarize（复杂）（值（绝对复杂）（阶段

复杂）））

[早上6:35]< Xofwait，为什么我要回复巨魔？

[早上6:36]< fax：/

[早上6:36] < Jaskoeven强大的Xof没有免疫力！

[早上6:36]< tritcheyXach：你说得对，他已经变成了mary

poppins。

[早上6:36]< xahleewell ...你的a ?? phasea的源代码是什么???

[早上6:36]< Xachxahlee：它是，as kmp曾经说过，从上帝那里给出了

[早上6:36]< Xofclhs阶段

[早上6:36]< specbot http://www.lispworks.com/reference/H...dy/f_phase.htm

[早上6:36] LiamH加入聊天室。

[早上6:36]< faxxahlee：你知道足够的数学写一个

impllementation

[早上6:36]< froydnjpiso：啊......嗯

[早上6:37]< faxxahlee：如果是a CLHS功能，然后它实际上如何编写将是具体实施的

[早上6:37]<传真CL CL不CLHS

[6： 37am]< xahleeas我描述，我对实现的算法感兴趣，而不是它的含义。

[早上6:37]< xahlee？ ？任何人都可以向我展示一个函数的源代码

将一个复数（a1 b2）转换为它的极值表示???

[早上6:37 ]< Xofall的确如此，但有一个很好的

建议如何在我从specbot获得的页面上实现它

[早上6:37] ]< faxxahlee：afaik没有办法计算它没有

条件

[早上6:38]< Xofxahlee：那就是你得到的/>
[早上6:38]< faxyou可以做4个点产品，或者atan ..但是你这样做

你必须处理案件

[早上6:38]< xahleefax：谢谢传真！只有你才能通过理解

的问题而不是一个巨魔。

[早上6:38]< Xof（atan yx）

[上午6:38]< xahleethe到目前为止，例如特别是xof和pjb，

只是想要巨魔。

[早上6:38]< Xoflook，ma，无条件

[6 ：38am]< faxxahlee：不仅仅是我给了你一些信息..

[早上6:39] Xof由ChanServ晋升为运营商。

[早上6:39] ] Xof禁止*！

* n*******@adsl-69-236-77-194.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net。

[早上6:39]你被Xof从聊天室踢了出来。 （现在离开，

请）

------------------


Christophe Rhodes在#lisp的过去一年中被不公平地踢了约3次在

。基本上，让我无法使用freenode.net提供的

服务。今天的事件，实际上是最宽松的。
。在过去的~3次中，他只是在几分钟内开始禁止我

我加入了#lisp频道。


Christophe Rhodes就是力量的一个例子 - 计算行业中挣扎的技术爱好者。像这样的事件经常发生在

几乎所有成员都只有男性的所有计算机论坛上。


我想要的将此引起公众的注意（在这种情况下，在

lisp社区中）。因为，像这样的母亲，这会伤害社会，并且他们都有可能成为圣徒和正义的持有者。


------ -------------


关于主题中讨论的数学问题的一些注释：


As i在我的帖子中指出，实现一个返回向量正角度的

函数并非易事。例如，它可以用坐标组件的符号检查来完成

（总共

4个案例，如果或者只是4个，可以做2个嵌套级别）

如果。），或者评价Min [Abs [ArcCos [x]，Abs [ArcSin [x]]]或

使用点积的巧妙方法或者ArcTan。

知道哪种算法通常更有效率并不是一件轻而易举的事。 （这很重要，

因为找到一个向量的角度是一个基本函数，可能需要直接或间接地调用
数百万次）此外，

考虑反向触发功能，很可能99.99％的人在数学中不知道这些实际上是如何实现的。那么，

是否调用反向触发功能之一的问题是否比另一个更强大或更有效是一个悬而未决的问题。而且，除了算法级别之外，问题还包括语言

实际上如何实现逆触发功能。


除此之外效率问题，还存在稳健性问题。对于

示例，如果2个向量是{1,0}和{0,1}，则简单的

实现将导致除以0或类似错误。 br />
检查其中一个是否位于x或y轴上意味着更多，如果

语句，以及确定是否两个
$ b $的非平凡问题b数字相等。 （例如0.000001被认为等于0.0001）


我有兴趣进行讨论，因为我正在用Linden脚本语言编写

a程序在第二人生中给出多面体对称性的结构（见 http://xahlee.org/sl/index.html

），我需要编写一个函数，返回正的角度2

给出了从A到B的向量。自从大约1993年以来，我已经在Mathematica中实现了几次这个问题的解决方案。作为一个

效率和完美的书呆子，有一些闲暇时间那一刻，我想b $ b我想知道关于他的问题的更多细节。关于算法级别的最佳

实现，或者看看

语言如何实现将复数转换为极值

形式的函数，或者关于这个

问题的一般理解和学习。


在一个人的计算生涯中，具体和专业的问题

喜欢这些比比皆是，而且关于它们的答案或知识很少。

由于对技术知识的普遍忽视，以及男性的权力 -

挣扎的性质，和不宽容的习惯和一个??巨魔 -

cryinga ??在计算社区中，很难对原始问题进行任何合理的讨论，这些问题不适用于某些基本的常见问题和概念。


除了抱怨过去一年被不公平地踢被禁止的人

我多次（在其他情况下发生在我身上

频道（特别是＃pel，＃python，＃emacs，...），邮件列表，

论坛，以及其他许多人（每天都在
中）。
几乎每个irc频道）。），我希望一般来说，技术专家可以更加宽容和知识渊博。特别是，a / b
来自社会中不在计算社区内的人们的理解和沟通。


例如，在新闻组中，每个人都关心并参与了关于整天的巨魔现象的b $ b。为了更好地理解这一点，学习心理学，社会学，anhtropology，民族学，

历史。我并不是说对slashdot感兴趣和兴奋

新闻文章然后开始在你的论坛讨论它。但是，在社区学院学习，或者如果合适的话，可以阅读你最喜欢的科幻小说来阅读这些科目的教科书。所以
叫做??特拉？ （无论它意味着什么），是一种社会行为现象。

因此，理解社会科学是理解它的正确方法，

如有必要，学习如何补救情况。例如，与其他技术专家没有技术联系。


例如，如果您对
的比较优势感兴趣
计算机语言，几乎每个技术专家似乎都知道这么多

，然后，尝试在很多特定分支上学习一门课程

哲学，伟大的分支和深度（非计算机 -

语言）语言学，或伟大的深度和分支和专业

甚至数学逻辑或其历史的哲学。各种

分支机构或哲学培训将帮助您进行批判性思考，以及帮助您了解观点，理念或

如何以良好的定义来解决问题。同样，

语言学一般会帮助你理解概念或语义理论或意义，语法和语法的理论，以及

可以给你一个独立和原创的思考

判断计算语言的问题。同样，数学逻辑为您提供了一个非常现代化的技术工具来评估或访问

问题。在技​​术新闻上留下您喜爱的

语言或计算机语言设计书籍或最新电脑的技术知识

工程实践指南或论坛论证或维基或Open
采购时代精神他妈的，阅读课本或学习上述

主题。


Xah
xa*@xahlee.org

a ?? http://xahlee.org/

解决方案

5月2日上午8:33，Xah Lee< x ... @ xahlee.orgwrote：


< snip>

正如我在帖子中指出的那样，实现一个返回向量正角度的

函数并非易事。例如，它可以用坐标组件的符号检查来完成

（总共

4个案例，如果或者只是4个，可以做2个嵌套级别）

如果。），或者评价Min [Abs [ArcCos [x]，Abs [ArcSin [x]]]或

使用点积的巧妙方法或者ArcTan。

知道哪种算法通常更有效率并不是一件轻而易举的事。 （这很重要，

因为找到一个向量的角度是一个基本函数，可能需要直接或间接地调用
数百万次）此外，

考虑反向触发功能，很可能99.99％的人在数学中不知道这些实际上是如何实现的。那么，

是否调用反向触发功能之一的问题是否比另一个更强大或更有效是一个悬而未决的问题。而且，除了算法级别之外，问题还包括语言

实际上如何实现反向触发功能。

< snip>


过早优化是所有邪恶的根源。


你问的问题在很大程度上取决于其他因素

在编码环境之外，例如编译器和

硬件。如果您正在编写特定语言/编译器/硬件

组合，那么您需要做的只是描述您的

代码的不同版本，直到您对结果满意为止。

5月2日上午11:33，Xah Lee< x ... @ xahlee.orgwrote：

[... ]

在一个人的计算生涯中，具体和专业的问题

就像这些一样，而且关于它们的答案或知识是稀缺。

由于对技术知识的普遍忽视，以及权力 - 男性挣扎的性质，以及不宽容的习惯和巨魔 -

哭泣在计算社区中，很难对原始问题进行任何合理的讨论，而这些问题并不适用于某些常见问题和概念的基本级别。

我有点想知道为什么你会期待谈谈

一个具体而专业的话题在一个场地致力于一个完全不同的具体和专业话题。


干杯，

Pillsy

Xah李写道：

今天，娘克里斯托夫罗德（又名XOF在IRC：//chat.freenode.net/ lisp

）踢了禁止我。

你知道你是巨魔吗？你有没有认为这与你的被禁止有什么关系？为什么网上99.999999％的

人不会像你一样对待？答：你是一个巨魔，而且他们不是。
他们不是。


詹姆斯

Today, a motherfucker Christophe Rhodes (aka Xof in irc://chat.freenode.net/lisp
) kicked banned me.
Here''s the few relevant excerpt. (full, unedited excerpt will be
published if there is a public interest)

Begin excerpt:

[5:31am] <xahleek, here is a simple problem but rather tedious to do
it correctly.
....
[5:32am] <xahleegiven a unit vector A={a1,a2}, write a function
AngleA, such that it returns the positive angle from {1,0} to A.
[5:33am] <xahleemathematically this is simple, but to implement it
is rather cumbersome, with many if statements.
[5:34am] <xahleealso, anyone who has implemented this will know trig
well.
[5:34am] <xahleei wonder if there''s already in some library in lisp.
(i doubt it)
[5:36am] <pjbxahlee: (acos (scalar-product A #(1 0)))

....

[6:34am] <xahleecan anyone show me the source code of a function
that convert a complex number (a1 b2) to it''s polar representation?
[6:35am] <Xof(defun polarize (complex) (values (abs complex) (phase
complex)))
[6:35am] <Xofwait, why am I replying to the troll?
[6:36am] <fax:/
[6:36am] <Jaskoeven the mighty Xof is not immune!
[6:36am] <tritcheyXach: you were right, he HAS turned into mary
poppins.
[6:36am] <xahleewell... what is the source code for your a??phasea???
[6:36am] <Xachxahlee: it is, as kmp once said, given from god
[6:36am] <Xofclhs phase
[6:36am] <specbothttp://www.lispworks.com/reference/H...dy/f_phase.htm
[6:36am] LiamH joined the chat room.
[6:36am] <faxxahlee: you know enough maths to write an
impllementation
[6:36am] <froydnjpiso: ah...hmmm
[6:37am] <faxxahlee: if its a CLHS function, then how its actually
written will be implementation specific
[6:37am] <faxer CL not CLHS
[6:37am] <xahleeas i described, i''m interested in the algorithm of
the implementation, not what it means.
[6:37am] <xahlee??can anyone show me the source code of a function
that convert a complex number (a1 b2) to it''s polar representation???
[6:37am] <Xofall of that is true, but there''s quite a good
suggestion for how to implement it on the page I got from specbot
[6:37am] <faxxahlee: afaik there is no way to calculate it without
conditionals
[6:38am] <Xofxahlee: and that''s what you got
[6:38am] <faxyou can do 4 dot products, or atan.. however you do it
you have to handle cases
[6:38am] <xahleefax: thanks fax! only you come thru understand the
question and not being a troll.
[6:38am] <Xof(atan y x)
[6:38am] <xahleethe others so far, e.g. xof and pjb in particular,
just wanted to troll.
[6:38am] <Xoflook, ma, no conditionals
[6:38am] <faxxahlee: more than just me gave you some info..
[6:39am] Xof was promoted to operator by ChanServ.
[6:39am] Xof set a ban on *!
*n*******@adsl-69-236-77-194.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net.
[6:39am] You were kicked from the chat room by Xof. (now go away,
please)
------------------

Christophe Rhodes has unjustly kicked banned me about 3 times in the
past year in #lisp. Basically, making it impossible for me to use the
service provided by freenode.net in way. Today''s incident, is actually
the most lenient. In the past ~3 times, he simply kick banned me
within few minutes i joined the #lisp channel.

Christophe Rhodes is one example of a power-struggling tech geeker in
the computing industry. Incidents like this, happens frequently in
just about all computer forums where almost all members are
exclusively male.

I want to bring this to the public attention (in this case, in the
lisp community). Because, it is motherfuckers like these, that does
society harm, and they all pretent to be saints and justice holders.

-------------------

Some notes about the math problem discussed in the topic:

As i have indicated in my post, it is non-trivial to implement a
function that returns the positive angle of a vector. For example, it
can be done with sign checking of the coordinate components (in total
4 cases, which can be done as 2 levels of nesting if, or simply 4
if.), and or the evaluation of Min[Abs[ArcCos[x],Abs[ArcSin[x]]], or
use clever ways with dot product, or ArcTan. It is not a trivial to
know which algorithm is in general more efficient. (this is important,
since finding the angle of a vector is a basic function, that may
needs to be called millions times directly or indirectly) Further,
consider the inverse trig function, it is likely 99.99% of people with
a PH D in math wouldn''t know how these are actually implemented. So,
the question of whether calling one of the inverse trig function is
more robust or efficient than another is a open question. And, besides
the algorithmic level, the question also entails how the language
actually implement the inverse trig functions.

Besides efficiency concerns, there''s also robustness concerns. For
example, if the 2 vectors are {1,0} and {0,1}, a simplistic
implementation will result in division by 0 or similar errors.
Checking whether one of them lies on the x or y axis means more if
statements, as well the non-trivial problem of determining if two
numbers are equal. (e.g. is 0.000001 considered equal to 0.0001 )

My interest in bringing this up for discussion, is because i''m writing
a program in Linden Scripting Language to generate a architecture of a
given polyhedral symmetry in Second Life (see http://xahlee.org/sl/index.html
), and i need to write a function that returns the positive angle of 2
given vectors from A to B. I have implemented solution to this
problem a few times in Mathematica since about 1993. Being a
efficiency and perfection nerd with some leisure at the moment, i
thought i''d like to know more details about his problem. A optimal
implementation with respect to the algorithm level, or see how
languages implement the function that convert complex numbers to polar
form, or some general understanding and learning with regards to this
problem.

In a person''s computing career, concrete and specialized questions
like these abound, and the answers or knowledge about them are scarce.
Due to the general ignorance of technical knowledge, and the power-
struggling nature of males, and the habit of intolerance and a??troll-
cryinga?? in computing communities, made it difficult to have any
sensible discussion of original questions that doesn''t fit into some
elementary level of FAQs and concepts.

Asides from complainting about the person who unjustly kicked banned
me many times in the past year (which has happened to me in other irc
channels (in particular, #perl, #python, #emacs,...), mailing lists,
forums, as well happens all the time to many many others (every day in
just about every irc channel).), i hope that in general, tech geekers
be more tolerant and knoweledgable. In particular, aquire
understanding and communication from persons in society who are not in
the computing community.

For example, in newsgroups everyone is all concerned and involved
about the phenomenon of troll all day. To understand this more
seriously, study psychology, sociology, anhtropology, ethnology,
history. I do not mean getting interested and excited with a slashdot
news article then start to discuss it in your forum. But do, take a
class in community colleges, or if suitable, spare a reading of your
favorite science fiction for a text book on the these subjects. The so-
called a??trolla?? (whatever it means), is a social, behavior phenomenon.
So, understanding social sciences is the proper way to understand it,
if necessary, learn how to remedy the situation. Not, for example, by
tech geeking with other tech geekers.

If you are, for example, interested in the comparative superiority of
computer languages that almost every tech geekers seem to know so much
about, then, try to take a course on the great many specific branches
of philosophy, the great branches and depths of (non-computer-
language) lingusitics, or the great depth and branches and specialties
and even philosophies of mathematical logic, or its history. Various
branches or trainings in philosophy will help you in critical
thinking, as well as aid you in seeing perspectives, philosophies, or
how to approach a problem with a good definition. Similarly,
linguistics will help you, in general, understand the concept or
theories of semantics or meaning and syntax and grammar, in a way that
can give you a independent and original thinking on the questions of
judging computing languages. Similarly, mathematical logic gives you a
extremely modern technical tool in evaluating or accessing the
problem. Spare a tech-geeking on a techincal book on your favorite
languages or computer language design book or latest computer
engineering practice guide or forum argumentation or wiki or Open
Sourcing zeitgeist fuck, to read a text book or learn on the above
topics.

Xah
xa*@xahlee.org
a?? http://xahlee.org/

解决方案

On May 2, 8:33 am, Xah Lee <[e-mail]:

<snip>

As i have indicated in my post, it is non-trivial to implement a
function that returns the positive angle of a vector. For example, it
can be done with sign checking of the coordinate components (in total
4 cases, which can be done as 2 levels of nesting if, or simply 4
if.), and or the evaluation of Min[Abs[ArcCos[x],Abs[ArcSin[x]]], or
use clever ways with dot product, or ArcTan. It is not a trivial to
know which algorithm is in general more efficient. (this is important,
since finding the angle of a vector is a basic function, that may
needs to be called millions times directly or indirectly) Further,
consider the inverse trig function, it is likely 99.99% of people with
a PH D in math wouldn''t know how these are actually implemented. So,
the question of whether calling one of the inverse trig function is
more robust or efficient than another is a open question. And, besides
the algorithmic level, the question also entails how the language
actually implement the inverse trig functions.

<snip>

"We should forget about small efficiencies, say about 97% of the time:
premature optimization is the root of all evil."

The question you are asking depends a great deal on other factors
outside of the coding environment such as the compiler and the
hardware. If you are coding for a specific language/compiler/hardware
combination, all you need do is profile different versions of your
code until you''re happy with the results.

On May 2, 11:33 am, Xah Lee <[e-mail]:
[...]

In a person''s computing career, concrete and specialized questions
like these abound, and the answers or knowledge about them are scarce.
Due to the general ignorance of technical knowledge, and the power-
struggling nature of males, and the habit of intolerance and "troll-
crying" in computing communities, made it difficult to have any
sensible discussion of original questions that doesn''t fit into some
elementary level of FAQs and concepts.

I''m sort of wondering why you''d expect to have a conversation about
one concrete and specialized topic in a venue devoted to an entirely
different concrete and specialized topic.

Cheers,
Pillsy

Xah Lee wrote:

Today, a motherfucker Christophe Rhodes (aka Xof in irc://chat.freenode.net/lisp
) kicked banned me.

Are you aware that you are a troll? Have you considered that this has
anything to do with your being kick-banned? Why do 99.999999 % of the
people on the web not get treated like you? Answer: you are a troll and
they are not.

James

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