请帮助我们哦，伟大的大师 [英] Please help us Oh Great Masters
问题描述
我打赌我最近读过的帖子中有50％至少有一件坏事
来说明每一个专门用于javascript的网站或书籍。
显然有一些海报（你知道你是谁）或者是b $ b或者认为自己是comp.land.javascript精英。你们这些
可能是那里最聪明，最有经验的开发者，并且给你带来了b
。你可能不是，我怎么知道。但是......
不要过于挑剔（这听起来很像不要打断......
这意味着很明显，我我打算打断.....）但我已经看到了很多这些Javascript精英。告诉我们初学者/爱好者
网上的所有Javascript信息多少糟透了，这不是
对，不买书A，B或C''因为他们都很糟糕，没有人在那里
知道他们在做什么，原型（以及其他每个javascript库
）都是垃圾。 .... yada，yada，yada。
为什么不是你们中的一些大师开始写一些信息，这些信息是正确的，这表明"适当"这样做的方法？虽然这个新组可能是一个好的（或者甚至是很棒的，但也有些笨拙的）b / b
信息的存储库，但它也是一个很难学习的方法。程序，
特别是因为我们只有不正确的网站和笨拙的书籍
才能让我们入手。说真的，上帝保佑我来到这个新的小组并且
问我如何用Javascript编程。我会得到一些很长的四页
独白关于这个新组织如何不做人们的工作
他们......等等，等等，等等。
所以，精英，我如何学习用Javascript编程？。我已经
（显然）知道怎么回事。
I bet 50% of the posts I''ve read lately have had at least one bad thing
to say about every website or book dedicated to javascript.
There are clearly a few posters (you know who you are) who either are
or consider themselves to be the "comp.land.javascript elite". You guys
may be the brightest, most seasoned developers out there, and hats off
to you. You may not be, how the heck would I know. But...
Not to be too critical (which sounds a lot like "Not to interrupt..."
which means clearly, I am planning to interrupt.....) but I''ve seen a
whole lot of these "Javascript elite" telling us beginners/hobbyists
just how much all the Javascript information on the web sucks, it''s not
right, don''t buy book A, B or C ''cause they all suck, no-one out there
knows what they''re doing, prototype (and every other javascript library
out there) is junk.....yada, yada, yada.
Why don''t a few of you gurus start writing some information that is
correct, that shows the "proper" way to do it? While this newgroup may
be a respository of good (or even great and also some sucky)
information, it''s also one hell of a bad way to learn to program,
especially given that we''ve only got incorrect websites and sucky books
to get us started. Seriously, God forbid I came to this newgroup and
asked "How do I program in Javascript". I''d get some long four page
monologue on how this newgroups isn''t to do people''s work for
them....blah, blah, blah.
So, elite, "How do I learn to program in Javascript?". I already
(apparently) know how not to.
推荐答案
Tom Cole写道：
< snip>
Tom Cole wrote:
<snip>
为什么不是你们中的一些大师开始写一些正确的信息，这显示了正确的信息。这样做的方法？虽然这个新组
可能是一个好的（或者甚至是很棒的，也有些笨拙的）
信息的存储库，但这也是一个很难学习的方法。程序，
Why don''t a few of you gurus start writing some information that is
correct, that shows the "proper" way to do it? While this newgroup
may be a respository of good (or even great and also some sucky)
information, it''s also one hell of a bad way to learn to program,
就javascript编程而言，它是。有一个
常数问题游行，其中许多可以通过小的
自包含脚本来解决，这些脚本将受到关键同行的影响
审查，允许提出的问题得到解决/纠正和结果
接触另一轮关键同行评审。通过参与这样的环境，您可以很快地学习
。
As far as javascript programming is concerned it is. There is a
constant parade of questions, many of which can be addressed with small
self-contained scripts which will then be subject to critical peer
review, allowing issues raised to be addressed/correct and the results
to be exposed to another round of critical peer review. You can learn
every well and very quickly by participating in such an environment.
特别是因为我们只有不正确的网站和su书本
让我们入手。说真的，上帝保佑我来到这个新的小组并且
问我如何用Javascript编程。我会得到一些很长的四页
独白关于这个新组织如何不做人们的工作
他们......等等，等等，等等。
especially given that we''ve only got incorrect websites and sucky books
to get us started. Seriously, God forbid I came to this newgroup and
asked "How do I program in Javascript". I''d get some long four page
monologue on how this newgroups isn''t to do people''s work for
them....blah, blah, blah.
更有可能你得到一个回复，表明能够创造一个精心设计的具体问题是 b的先决条件br />
良好的编程。
More likely you would get a response suggesting that an ability to
create a well formulated and specific question is a pre-requisite for
good programming.
所以，精英，我如何学习用Javascript编程？。我已经
（显然）知道如何不去。
So, elite, "How do I learn to program in Javascript?". I already
(apparently) know how not to.
如果你知道你做错了什么弯腰做了什么并做了什么
别的，不管是什么告诉你你在做什么错误
之前应该让你能够识别你接下来要做什么的错误。
理查德。
If you know what you are doing wrong stoop doing it and do something
else, whatever it was that informed you what you were doing wrong
previously should enable you to identify whatever is wrong in what you
do next.
Richard.
Richard Cornford写道：
Richard Cornford wrote:
Tom Cole写道：
< snip>
Tom Cole wrote:
<snip>
为什么不是你们中的一些大师开始写一些正确的信息，这显示了正确的信息。这样做的方法？虽然这个新组
可能是一个好的（或者甚至是很棒的，也有些笨拙的）
信息的存储库，但这也是一个很难学习的方法。程序，
Why don''t a few of you gurus start writing some information that is
correct, that shows the "proper" way to do it? While this newgroup
may be a respository of good (or even great and also some sucky)
information, it''s also one hell of a bad way to learn to program,
就javascript编程而言，它是。有一个
常数问题游行，其中许多可以通过小的
自包含脚本来解决，这些脚本将受到关键同行的影响
审查，允许提出的问题得到解决/纠正和结果
接触另一轮关键同行评审。通过参与这样的环境，您可以很快地学习
。
As far as javascript programming is concerned it is. There is a
constant parade of questions, many of which can be addressed with small
self-contained scripts which will then be subject to critical peer
review, allowing issues raised to be addressed/correct and the results
to be exposed to another round of critical peer review. You can learn
every well and very quickly by participating in such an environment.
我同意，我的问题更多的是从一个完整的
初学者的角度来看。他/她不能在这里学习基础知识，它将永远需要
。具体问题，另一方面，肯定...
问题是每次我看到新手参考书或
网站，有人告诉他们有多少垃圾。那么他们从哪里获得核心知识才能真正得到一个特定的问题？
我没有看到任何证据表明专家在这一组中正在帮助
一点来解决物质不好的问题。他们只是指出来了。
（这就像告诉某人，不要走到那里，那里有大便。但没有人
曾经清理过它）。
I agree, my question was more from the perspective of a complete
beginner. He/she can''t learn the fundamentals here, it would take
forever. Specific questions, on the other, sure...
The problem is everytime I''ve seen a newbie reference a book or
website, someone tells them how much junk it is. So where do they get
the core knowledge from in order to actually have a specific question?
I don''t see any evidence where the "experts" in this group are helping
one bit to solve the problem of bad material. They just point it out.
(It''s like telling someone, don''t step there, there''s poop. But no-one
ever cleans it up).
>
>
特别是因为我们只有不正确的网站和糟糕的书籍
才能让我们入手。说真的，上帝保佑我来到这个新的小组并且
问我如何用Javascript编程。我会得到一些很长的四页
独白关于这个新组织如何不做人们的工作
他们......等等，等等，等等。
especially given that we''ve only got incorrect websites and sucky books
to get us started. Seriously, God forbid I came to this newgroup and
asked "How do I program in Javascript". I''d get some long four page
monologue on how this newgroups isn''t to do people''s work for
them....blah, blah, blah.
您更有可能得到一个回复，表明能够创建一个精心设计的具体问题是 b的先决条件br />
很好的编程。
More likely you would get a response suggesting that an ability to
create a well formulated and specific question is a pre-requisite for
good programming.
这正是我期望得到的回应（刚刚得到，你的
点）。但我敢打赌，我可以比你更好地画一只小狗......：^）
That is exactly the response I would expect to get (and just got, your
point taken). But I bet I can draw a puppy better than you.... :^)
>
>
所以，精英，我如何学习使用Javascript编程？。我已经
（显然）知道如何不去。
So, elite, "How do I learn to program in Javascript?". I already
(apparently) know how not to.
如果你知道你做错了什么弯腰做了什么并做了什么
别的，无论是什么告诉你你在做什么错误
之前应该让你能够识别出你接下来要做什么的错误。
If you know what you are doing wrong stoop doing it and do something
else, whatever it was that informed you what you were doing wrong
previously should enable you to identify whatever is wrong in what you
do next.
" I"我做得很好我很早就开始编写脚本了。虽然我没有完全掌握高级概念，但这是因为我不想b $ b想要的。如果它得到推进我更喜欢使用专为此任务设计的工具（恕我直言）。
我我在这里使用的更像是皇室我们。 我们如何（新手）
学会用Javascript编程。显然我们已经学会了
没有（因为comp.lang.javascript
精英一再被告知）。看看我的意思是什么？
但是...有很多新手发布了问题，我看到更多
snippy on-liners似乎更多的设计是为了提醒新手，我们如何感知这是多么的愚蠢他比实际帮助更多。告诉某人
，这是一个坏主意，告诉他们为什么这是一个坏主意，然后
然后告诉他们如何正确地做到这一点无处可去。我最近看到了一个
的问题，询问你买三个好的javascript书会是什么？b $ b。公平的问题。每当
可能时，我更愿意通过阅读来学习。我敢打赌，我的图书馆里的CS书籍比任何其他的
类型都要多。那么你认为他得到了什么回应？ 书上没有三本好书。现在这很有趣。我个人发现，并不像
那样真实的精英可能意味着它，但我明白了他的观点。一个问题只有一个问题，而不是一个单一的好问题。书名已经给出。不是一个。哈哈。
虽然这可能不是一个很好的例子，但还有1000多个就像这个组中的
。
责备咖啡。今天早上没有奶精。
"I" am doing fine. I''ve been scripting since very early on. And while I
don''t have full mastery of the advanced concepts, it''s because I don''t
want to. If it gets that "advance" I''d prefer to use a tool more
designed for the task (IMHO of course).
The "I" I was using here is more of a royal "we". "How do we (newbies)
learn to program in Javascript". Apparently we have already learned how
not to (having been repeatedly told so by the comp.lang.javascript
elite). See what I mean?
But...there are tons of newbie''s that post questions and I see more
snippy on-liners that seem more designed to remind the newbie just how
stupid we "perceive" him to be than actually helping. Telling someone
that something is a bad idea, telling them why it''s a bad idea, and
then not telling them how to do it right gets one nowhere. I saw a
question recently that asked "What three good javascript books would
you buy?". Fair enough question. I prefer to learn by reading whenever
possible. I bet I''ve got more CS books in my library than any other
genre. So what response do you think he got? "There aren''t three good
books.". Now that''s funny. I personally found that to be not as true as
the "elite" probably meant it to be, but I got his point. There''s only
one problem, not a single "good" book title was given. Not one. Ha-ha.
While this may not be a great example, there are 1000 more just like it
in this group.
Blame it on the coffee. There was no creamer this morning.
>
理查德。
>
Richard.
Tom Cole写道：
< snip>
Tom Cole wrote:
<snip>
告诉某人某事是个坏主意，
告诉他们为什么这是个坏主意，并且
然后没有告诉他们如何正确地做到这一点无处可去。
Telling someone that something is a bad idea,
telling them why it''s a bad idea, and
then not telling them how to do it right gets one nowhere.
你还要求什么？告诉人们如何做得很糟糕？
What are you asking for then? Telling people how to do things badly?
我最近看到一个问题，问你要买什么三个好的javascript
书？ " ;.公平的问题。我希望尽可能通过
阅读来学习。
I saw a question recently that asked "What three good javascript
books would you buy?". Fair enough question. I prefer to learn by
reading whenever possible.
我也更喜欢阅读纸质书籍。
I also prefer to read paper books.
我打赌我有更多的CS书籍在我的图书馆比任何其他
类型。
I bet I''ve got more CS books in my library than any other
genre.
我从来没有拥有过CSS书。
I have never owned a CSS book.
那么你认为他得到了什么回应？ 没有三本好b $ b好书。现在这很有趣。
So what response do you think he got? "There aren''t three
good books.". Now that''s funny.
这是不幸的，但确实如此。在一个平均javascript
书中充斥着关于javascript的虚假陈述的世界中，重要的
遗漏和建议从穷人到自杀最好的
已经被管理的是一本书的标识，该书被认为是最差的（差不多）。结果是没有第二或第三个b $ b推荐是可能的。
It is unfortunate, but true. In a world where an average javascript
book is filled with false statements about javascript, significant
omissions and advice ranging from the poor to the suicidal the best
that has been managed is the identification of one book that qualifies
as least bad (by some margin). The result is that no second or third
recommendation is possible.
我个人认为这不像
那样真实
精英可能意味着它，但我明白了他的观点。一个问题只有一个问题，而不是一个单一的好问题。书名已经给出。不是一个。哈哈。
I personally found that to be not as true as
the "elite" probably meant it to be, but I got his point. There''s only
one problem, not a single "good" book title was given. Not one. Ha-ha.
假设有人开始发布到c.l.j.已阅读常见问题解答，
等存在的建议。
One assumes that someone starting to post to c.l.j. has read the FAQ,
and so the one recommendation that exists.
虽然这可能不是一个很好的例子，但有1000个
就像在这个组中一样。
While this may not be a great example, there are 1000
more just like it in this group.
一年有多少或30,000个帖子？
大体上有问题/形成的问题（格式良好的帖子）使用
使用搜索引擎无法轻易获得的主题
会得到合理的回复（受制于那些可以提供这些的人们b / b
的答案是时候写了。）
Richard。
Out or 30,000 posts a year?
By and large well asked/formed questions (in well-formed posts) with
subjects that could not trivially be acquired using search engines will
get reasonable responses (subject to the people who can provide those
answers having the time to write them).
Richard.
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