精神编程（OT，但受Python启发） [英] Spiritual Programming (OT, but Python-inspired)

问题描述

在准备关于课程和OOP的Python411播客时，我的想法

想知道远方。我发现自己构建了一个扩展的比喻

或类似于程序组织方式和某些哲学思想之间的类比。所以，去我最好的天使不敢去的地方，这里是我的noodling的禁果：


精神编程：


在我看来，如果一个人的任何事情以任何方式幸存下来，

它必须以某种方式完全不同于我们的方式

现在存在。


现在，我们生活在一个时空世界，一旦我们的身体和大脑停止运作，那么我们的心灵就不会在这个时间世界中，我们不再存在这个时间世界中更长的功能


所以，我们当前的意识和意识是暂时的。我们

体验单向流动的时间。我们实际上并没有意识到

任何永久的东西，只有随着时间流逝而变化的世界。


从这个意义上说，我们就像鬼魂一样计算机的机器

系统运行计算机程序或程序，用程序性的b
语言和风格编写。也就是说，我们程序中的指令以

线性序列流动，每条指令都会影响并让位于

下一条指令。哦，有偶尔的循环结构，并且即使是偶尔出现的左外场混乱也会导致进入;但是我们仍然会将所有这些事情视为线性和程序性的。


我觉得，如果我们中的任何一个人幸存下来，那么必须这样做。 />
在时间之外，任何幸存的意识都无法体验到这种时间，线性，程序性的存在，我们现在已经意识到了这一点。哦，我可以想象我们存在的永恒本质。现有的

永恒但静态地，观察我们的信息性的b $ b洞的剩余部分。在时间宇宙中进化和消解;但是这毕竟是一个冷酷的生存，几乎不值得这个名字。


但也许有一个非暂时的永恒世界，那就是

结构更像是高阶编程结构。所以，

例如，函数式编程需要并建立在它的b
程序前辈之上。因此，我们在这个时间存在中开发的更好，更可重复使用的部分可以在非时间世界中被回收到

功能单元中。仍然会有一个

的逻辑流方向，但它将是一个更高阶的现实，而不是一个线性的，程序性的。


但除此之外，也许我们可以想象一个面向对象的世界，一个在
中的一个，更多功能性，可重复使用的人和物的部分来自这个更低的，时间世界被重新打包成包含

功能方法和状态参数的对象。这些更高阶的对象，以及它们之间形成的关系，可以是想象存在于一个更加永恒的状态，而不仅仅是程序性的

程序，甚至是功能性程序，因为面对复杂的面向对象这样一个永恒世界的结构，即使在整体上看待它们时也会有意义，而不仅仅是在玩这个时候线性地像留声机唱片。

必须有一些更高阶的时间同源性，在这个对象中b / b
这个世界，但我们现在无法想象它。我们在这个更高阶的世界中存在的意识与我们目前对线性流动时间的认识不同，但必须

更多在感知意义运动的方式和

这个更高阶的信息矩阵之间的关系，

面向对象的宇宙。


人们可以想象一个宇宙，其中有无限大的无限数量，但是这些维度也一直在以无限的速度扩展。这种扩张可以被认为是时间的同源性。这个世界的实体可以在任何方面自由地向后移动，并且可以同时体验整体的现实，但仍然体验到时间的新颖性;。


我不知道面向方面编程如何适应这张图片，

如果有的话。但是可以想象更高级的编程逻辑和结构比OOP更高，无论AOP是否合格，还是其他的，但是b $ b未被描述的编程范例。并且，我们不知道在我们当前的技术理解之外还存在多少更多的b $ b b层编程结构。


也许这个这是程序员对他们的编程工具充满热情，甚至是宗教信仰的一个原因;因为他们直觉地感觉到我们正在处理的想法，无论多么粗暴，都会反映出极其重要的永恒现实。


Ron Stephens

< a href =" http：//www.awaretek.com/python/index.html"> Python411播客

系列< / a>

While preparing a Python411 podcast about classes and OOP, my mind
wondered far afield. I found myself constructing an extended metaphor
or analogy between the way programs are organized and certain
philosophical ideas. So, going where my better angels dare not, here is
the forbidden fruit of my noodling:

Spiritual Programming:

It seems to me that, if anything of a person survives death in any way,
it must do so in some way very different from that way in which we
exist now.

For now, we live in a temporal world, and once our body and brain
ceases to function, then our mind can no longer function in this
temporal world, and we cease to exist in this temporal world

So, our current consciousness and awareness is a temporal one. We
experience the one way flow of time. We are not actually conscious of
any permanent thing, only of the changing world as time flows forward.

In this sense, we are like the ghost in the machine of a computer
system running a computer program, or programs, written in a procedural
language and style. That is, the instructions in our program flow in a
linear sequence, with each instruction impacting and giving way to the
next instruction. Oh, there are the occasional looping structures, and
even the occasional out-of-left-field chaos causing go-to; but we
nevertheless experience all these things as linear and procedural.

It seems apparent to me that , if anything of us survives it must do so
outside time, and any surviving consciousness could not experience the
same sort of temporal, linear, procedural existence of which we are now
aware. Oh, I can imagine a timeless essence of our "being" existing
timelessly but statically, observing the remnant of our "informational
holes" evolving and dissolving away in the temporal universe; but this
would be a cold survival after all, hardly worthy of the name.

But perhaps there is a non-temporal world of eternity, that has
structures more reminiscent of higher order programming structures. So,
for instance, functional programming takes and builds upon its
procedural predecessors. So maybe our better, more re-useable parts,
that we develop in this temporal existence, are recycled into
functional units in a non-temporal world. There would still be a
direction of logic flow, but it would be a higher order reality than a
linear, procedural one.

But beyond this perhaps we can imagine an object oriented world, one in
which the more functional, re-useable parts of people and things from
this lower, temporal world are re-packaged into objects containing both
functional methods and also parameters of state. These higher order
objects, and the relationships they form amongst themselves, can be
imagined to exist in a more timeless state than mere procedural
programs, or even functional ones, in that the complex object oriented
structures of such a timeless world would hold meaning even when viewed
as a whole, and not just when played linearly like a phonograph record.
There must be some higher order cognate of time, in this object
oriented world, but we are not able to conceive of it at this time. Our
awareness of existence in this higher order world would be very
different than our current awareness of linearly flowing time, but must
be more in the way of sensing the movements of meaning and
relationships amongst the informational matrices of this higher order,
object oriented universe.

One can visualize a universe in which there are are an infinite number
of infinite dimensions, but these dimensions also keep expanding at an
infinite rate forever. This expansion could be thought of as the
cognate of time. Entities in this world could freely move back and
forth in any dimension, and could experience the totality of reality
all at once, but still experience the novelty of "time".

I do not know how Aspect Oriented Programming fits into this picture,
if at all. But one can imagine higher orders of programming logic and
structure than OOP, whether AOP qualifies or some other, yet
undescribed programing paradigm. And, we do not know how many higher
layers of programming structure exist beyond our current technical
understanding.

Perhaps this is one reason why programmers are so passionate, and even
religious, about their programming tools; because they intuitively
sense that we are dealing with ideas that, however crudely, mirror
eternal realities of immense significance.

Ron Stephens
<a href="http://www.awaretek.com/python/index.html">Python411 Podcast
Series</a>

推荐答案

有很多方法可以发疯，但其中最有价值的是

这一个这是一个普通人的天才。


克劳迪奥

Ur ********** @ gmail.com 写道：

There are many ways of going crazy, but the most valuable of them is
this one which makes a genius out of an ordinary man.

Claudio

Ur**********@gmail.com wrote:

在准备关于课程和OOP的Python411播客时，我的心思
想知道远方。我发现自己构建了一个扩展的比喻，或者在程序组织方式和某些哲学思想之间进行类比。所以，在我最好的天使不敢去的地方，这里是我的noodling的禁果：

精神编程：

在我看来，如果有的话一个人以任何方式幸存下来，
它必须以某种方式与我们现在存在的方式截然不同。

目前，我们生活在一个时间世界，一旦我们的身体和大脑停止运作，那么我们的思想就不能在这个时间世界中发挥作用，我们就不再存在于这个时空世界中

因此，我们目前的意识和意识是暂时的。我们经历单向流动的时间。我们实际上并没有意识到任何永久性的东西，只有随着时间流逝而变化的世界。

从这个意义上讲，我们就像电脑机器中的幽灵一样。 >运行计算机程序或程序的系统，以程序性语言和风格编写。也就是说，我们程序中的指令以线性顺序流动，每条指令都会影响并让位于下一条指令。哦，有偶尔的循环结构，甚至偶尔出现的左外场混乱导致进入;但是我们仍然将所有这些事情视为线性和程序性的。

我觉得，如果我们中的任何一个幸存下来，它必须在外面时间这样做，并且任何幸存者意识无法体验到我们现在所知道的那种时间的，线性的，程序性的存在。哦，我可以想象我们存在的永恒本质。现有的
永恒但静态地，观察我们的信息孔的残余。在时间宇宙中进化和消解;但是这毕竟是一种冷酷的生存，几乎不值得这个名字。

但也许有一个非暂时的永恒世界，它的结构更像是让人想起高阶编程结构。因此，例如，函数式编程需要并以其程序前辈为基础。因此，我们在这个时间存在中发展的更好，更可重复的部分可能会被回收到非时间世界的功能单元中。仍然会有一个逻辑流的方向，但它会比一个线性的，程序性的更高阶的现实。

但除此之外我们可以想象一个对象
这个较低的时间世界的人和事物的功能性更强，可重复使用的部分被重新打包成包含功能方法和参数的对象。州。这些更高阶的对象，以及它们之间形成的关系，可以被想象为存在于一个更加永恒的状态，而不仅仅是程序性的程序，甚至是功能性的程序，因为复杂的对象这种永恒世界的结构即使在整体观看时也具有意义，而不仅仅是像留声机唱片一样线性播放。

必须有更高的顺序时间的同源，在这个对象面向世界，但我们现在无法想象它。我们在这个更高阶世界中存在的意识与我们目前对线性流动时间的认识有很大的不同，但必须更多地感知意义的运动方式。 />这个更高阶的信息矩阵之间的关系，面向对象的宇宙。

人们可以想象一个宇宙，其中存在无限大的无限维数，但是这些尺寸也永远以无限的速度不断扩大。这种扩张可以被认为是时间的同源。这个世界上的实体可以在任何方面自由地向后移动，并且可以同时体验整体的现实，但仍然体验到时间的新颖性。
如果有的话。但是可以想象编程逻辑和结构的顺序比OOP更高，无论AOP是否合格，还是其他一些尚未描述的编程范例。并且，我们不知道在我们当前的技术理解之外存在多少更高层次的编程结构。

也许这就是为什么程序员如此热情，甚至<宗教，关于他们的编程工具;因为他们直觉地感觉到我们正在处理那些粗暴地反映永恒现实的想法。

Ron Stephens
< a href =" ; http：//www.awaretek.com/python/index.html"> Python411播客
系列< / a>

While preparing a Python411 podcast about classes and OOP, my mind
wondered far afield. I found myself constructing an extended metaphor
or analogy between the way programs are organized and certain
philosophical ideas. So, going where my better angels dare not, here is
the forbidden fruit of my noodling:

Spiritual Programming:

It seems to me that, if anything of a person survives death in any way,
it must do so in some way very different from that way in which we
exist now.

For now, we live in a temporal world, and once our body and brain
ceases to function, then our mind can no longer function in this
temporal world, and we cease to exist in this temporal world

So, our current consciousness and awareness is a temporal one. We
experience the one way flow of time. We are not actually conscious of
any permanent thing, only of the changing world as time flows forward.

In this sense, we are like the ghost in the machine of a computer
system running a computer program, or programs, written in a procedural
language and style. That is, the instructions in our program flow in a
linear sequence, with each instruction impacting and giving way to the
next instruction. Oh, there are the occasional looping structures, and
even the occasional out-of-left-field chaos causing go-to; but we
nevertheless experience all these things as linear and procedural.

It seems apparent to me that , if anything of us survives it must do so
outside time, and any surviving consciousness could not experience the
same sort of temporal, linear, procedural existence of which we are now
aware. Oh, I can imagine a timeless essence of our "being" existing
timelessly but statically, observing the remnant of our "informational
holes" evolving and dissolving away in the temporal universe; but this
would be a cold survival after all, hardly worthy of the name.

But perhaps there is a non-temporal world of eternity, that has
structures more reminiscent of higher order programming structures. So,
for instance, functional programming takes and builds upon its
procedural predecessors. So maybe our better, more re-useable parts,
that we develop in this temporal existence, are recycled into
functional units in a non-temporal world. There would still be a
direction of logic flow, but it would be a higher order reality than a
linear, procedural one.

But beyond this perhaps we can imagine an object oriented world, one in
which the more functional, re-useable parts of people and things from
this lower, temporal world are re-packaged into objects containing both
functional methods and also parameters of state. These higher order
objects, and the relationships they form amongst themselves, can be
imagined to exist in a more timeless state than mere procedural
programs, or even functional ones, in that the complex object oriented
structures of such a timeless world would hold meaning even when viewed
as a whole, and not just when played linearly like a phonograph record.
There must be some higher order cognate of time, in this object
oriented world, but we are not able to conceive of it at this time. Our
awareness of existence in this higher order world would be very
different than our current awareness of linearly flowing time, but must
be more in the way of sensing the movements of meaning and
relationships amongst the informational matrices of this higher order,
object oriented universe.

One can visualize a universe in which there are are an infinite number
of infinite dimensions, but these dimensions also keep expanding at an
infinite rate forever. This expansion could be thought of as the
cognate of time. Entities in this world could freely move back and
forth in any dimension, and could experience the totality of reality
all at once, but still experience the novelty of "time".

I do not know how Aspect Oriented Programming fits into this picture,
if at all. But one can imagine higher orders of programming logic and
structure than OOP, whether AOP qualifies or some other, yet
undescribed programing paradigm. And, we do not know how many higher
layers of programming structure exist beyond our current technical
understanding.

Perhaps this is one reason why programmers are so passionate, and even
religious, about their programming tools; because they intuitively
sense that we are dealing with ideas that, however crudely, mirror
eternal realities of immense significance.

Ron Stephens
<a href="http://www.awaretek.com/python/index.html">Python411 Podcast
Series</a>

开星期一，2006年1月2日13:38:47 -0800，UrsusMaximus写道：

On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 13:38:47 -0800, UrsusMaximus wrote:

在我看来，如果一个人的任何事情以任何方式幸存下来，
它必须以某种方式与我们现在存在的方式截然不同。

It seems to me that, if anything of a person survives death in any way,
it must do so in some way very different from that way in which we
exist now.

[snip]


我不喜欢不敢问你这个假设的证据在哪里，但我会

问你想象这个的原因是什么？什么是思想链

来自：

第1步：我们生活在一个时空世界。


to：


步骤N：我们的幽灵/灵魂必须生活在一个永恒的状态。


？


除了一厢情愿的想法。在任何关于来世的推理中，这总是主要成分

。生命是一个过程，而不是一件事 -

当一个时钟停止运转并且停止滴答作响时，没有精确的滴答作响

继续前进，齿轮就停止了。当我停止行走时，没有

精神的行走让我活了下来。我只是停止走路了。

-

史蒂文。

[snip]

I don''t dare ask where your evidence for this hypothesis is, but I will
ask what are your reasons for imagining this? What is the chain of thought
that leads from:

Step 1: We live in a temporal world.

to:

Step N: Our ghost/soul must therefore live in a timeless state.

?

Apart from wishful thinking of course. That''s always the major component
in any reasoning about the afterlife. Life is a process, not a thing --
when a clock runs down and stops ticking, there is no essence of ticking
that keeps going, the gears just stop. When I stop walking, there is no
spirit of walk that survives me coming to a halt. I just stop walking.
--
Steven.

"最高活动意识起源于大脑的物理现象，就像最美妙的旋律一样，不会过于崇高而无法用音符来表达。 - Somerset Maugham

"The highest activities of consciousness have their origins in the
physical occurrences of the brain just as the loveliest of melodies are
not too sublime to be expressed by notes."--Somerset Maugham

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