请帮帮我 - Python是答案吗？ [英] Help me in this please--is Python the answer?

问题描述

您好，


我有机会确定用于创建类似于此的

产品的技术：

http://www.atomicisland.com/


现在问题是我需要把这个卖给有钱的人。

我用C ++和Java开发了多年，最近7年的J2EE，以及我是

有点厌倦了臃肿的感觉整个J2EE / appserver

业务都是如此。


Python是我在家里使用的语言，所以我一直在想

使用它来实现上述产品。我个人

体验了编程的乐趣，因此，我希望这将转化为优于竞争对手的优势（保罗） />
格雷厄姆对Lisp的论证。


也就是说，我对Python的经验仅限于玩具程序，我是
写我自己使用。因此，我有几个问题：


1. Python的可扩展性如何？在J2EE中，当负载变得非常大时，我们

可以求助于群集。可用性也是如此。是否有什么东西可以帮助Python？ （介意，我的Python经验是

通常使用脚本和控制台）。


2.如果有，那么从轻量级到

重量级？例如：在J2EE中，我们可以首先使用Tomcat作为轻量级的

在Python中可以实现吗？


3.你们之前有没有这样做过？就像你来自一个沉重的J2EE

背景，然后切换到在
Python中做同样严肃的事情？根据您的经验，最终您是否发现Python适用于此域名的所有内容，或者您​​认为您应该坚持使用J2EE？什么

是你发现的利弊？


（我很想用Python开发并最终获得报酬，但在

同时我想给这个钱家伙最好的价值他的

钱......）


非常感谢，

Ray

Hello,

I''ve got the chance to determine the technology to use in creating a
product similar to this:

http://www.atomicisland.com/

Now the thing is that I need to sell this to the guy with the money.
I''ve developed for years with C++ and Java, last 7 years J2EE, and I''m
kinda sick of the "bloated" feeling that the whole J2EE/appserver
business carries into the picture.

Python is the language that I use at home, so I''ve been thinking of
using this to implement the product mentioned above. I''ve personally
experienced the pleasure of programming in it, and as such, I hope that
this will translate to advantage over our competitors (a la Paul
Graham''s argument for Lisp).

That said, my experience with Python is limited to toy programs, that I
write myself for my own use. As such, I have several concerns:

1. How scalable is Python? In J2EE, when the load gets really big, we
can resort to clustering. Same goes about availability. Is there
anything that will help here in Python? (Mind, my Python experience is
usually with scripts and console).

2. If there is, what is the transition like from being lightweight to
heavyweight? E.g.: in J2EE we can use Tomcat at first as a lightweight
web container, and scale as necessary using a more powerful appserver.
Is this possible in Python?

3. Have any of you done this before? As in you come from a heavy J2EE
background, and then switch to doing something equally serious in
Python? In your experience, in the end, did you find Python suitable at
all for this domain or you think you should have stuck to J2EE? What
are the pros and cons you discovered?

(I''d love to develop in Python and get paid for it finally, but at the
same time I do want to give the money guy the best value for his
money...)

Thanks much,
Ray

推荐答案

嗨雷，


我我只是在同一条船上，我只能选择我的

实施语言;-)


一些问题应该是：

- 您是否需要与消息系统（一个JMS

规范），分布式事务管理器等接口？如果是这样，唯一的方法就是使用Jython：JVM的Python。因为AFAIK，对于IBM的MQSeries或任何

分布式事务管理器来说，没有Python的接口。


- 您的应用程序纯粹是基于Web的应用程序吗？或者是否有大量的应用程序逻辑，它们不以任何

的方式与网络绑定？


- Python有许多用于开发服务器应用程序的框架，

像Twisted，Zope和Django。

我不知道Twisted;我对Zope有点了解。 Zope有几个

企业级功能，并提供可扩展性/集群。

但是，我发现Zope的学习曲线有点陡峭所以/>
远;太过陡峭，无法掌握我的闲暇时间。

（如果我有更多的时间，我可以得到它的支持，但我

没有足够的时间）


我已经开始玩Django了一下它似乎变得相当容易

得到开始使用Django开发Web应用程序;然而

我也觉得安装比Zope更多涉及

并且包装应用程序并不那么容易

并将其传输到另一台机器，就像Zope一样。

因此，对于Web应用程序的开发，我当然会考虑使用Zope或Django来支付
。 br />
两者都提供了将数据存储在事务数据库中的方法; Django

有一些对象关系映射器工具，但我不确定Zope

究竟是如何将数据存储在SQL数据库中的（它带有它自己的强大功能）

对象数据库，ZODB，但我不知道是否存在OR映射工具

for Zope）。

但是你提到' J2EE中的开发和J2EE应用程序是绝对限制在Web界面上的.b $ b。 J2EE应用程序可以拥有丰富的GUI客户端，或者可以没有任何UI，并且存在就像通过JMS进入的消息触发的消息驱动bean一样。 >
接口。

我不知道将基于Web的应用程序与传统的GUI客户端/服务器应用程序结合起来的Python框架是什么？br / >
我不知道如何使用Python监听队列...

那么你对''J2EE''应用程序的要求是什么？哪个Python

框架最适合这个账单？

欢呼，


--Tim

2006年1月11日17:54:05 -0800，Ray< ra ******** @ yahoo.com>写道：

On 11 Jan 2006 17:54:05 -0800, Ray <ra********@yahoo.com> wrote:

您好，

我有机会确定用于创建类似产品的技术：

http://www.atomicisland.com/
我已经用C ++和Java开发了多年，最近7年的J2EE，我很有点
生病的膨胀的感觉整个J2EE / appserver业务都是如此。


就我个人而言，我发现如果你需要出售一种技术，

说它用Java编写是一种优势（因为它是'b $ b标准'）。如果它是用Python编写的，那么你可能会被问到为什么它用脚本语言写成了
。如果他们听说过的话。

Python是我在家里使用的语言，所以我一直在考虑使用它来实现上面提到的产品。我个人已经体验到编程的乐趣，因此，我希望这将转化为优于竞争对手的优势（保罗·格拉汉姆的论点） Lisp的）。
从我简要介绍你给你的网址，看起来你正在尝试
进入一个非常拥挤的市场。为了获得成功，你必须比你的竞争对手更好地执行
（他们有一个头脑。
）。使用

与他们完全相同的工具，你无法做到这一点，所以你必须选择更好的工具。

几乎按照定义，大多数人使用的工具都不是最好的工具。如果我是你，我肯定会选择

Python，只是因为其他人还没有使用它。

这就是说，我对Python的经验仅限于玩具程序，我自己写我自己使用。因此，我有几个问题：

1. Python的可扩展性如何？在J2EE中，当负载变得非常大时，我们可以诉诸于群集。可用性也是如此。是否有什么能帮助Python？ （介意，我的Python体验通常是脚本和控制台）。

2.如果有，那么从轻量级到重量级的过渡是什么？例如：在J2EE中，我们可以首先使用Tomcat作为轻量级的Web容器，并使用更强大的应用程序服务器进行必要的扩展。
这在Python中是否可行？


如果我是你，我会集中精力创建一个实际上

工作的网站。您创建一个需要扩展为b重量级的网站的机会非常渺茫。如果你设法达到那一点那么

你可以开始担心如何应付所有的钱，而不是
滚动;）


AFAIAA Python比Java更好地扩展，因为任何性能至关重要

部件可以很容易地用C重写。花太多时间担心

超过它虽然过早优化。

3.你们之前有没有这样做过？就像你来自一个沉重的J2EE背景，然后切换到在Python中做同样严肃的事情？根据您的经验，最终您是否发现Python适用于此域名，或者您认为应该坚持使用J2EE？你发现的利弊是什么？


我对Java tbh没有多少经验，但我从来没有听说过使用它的任何

pro'，除了事实上，对于大企业而言，它更容易被接受，并且让平庸的程序员更容易接受它。

（我很乐意发展在Python中并最终获得报酬，但是在同一时间我确实想给钱人最好的钱给他的钱......）

Hello,

I''ve got the chance to determine the technology to use in creating a
product similar to this:

http://www.atomicisland.com/

Now the thing is that I need to sell this to the guy with the money.
I''ve developed for years with C++ and Java, last 7 years J2EE, and I''m
kinda sick of the "bloated" feeling that the whole J2EE/appserver
business carries into the picture.
Personally I have found that if you need to sell a technology on,
saying it''s written in Java is an advantage generally (because "it''s a
standard"). If it''s written in Python you may get asked why it has
been written in a "scripting language" if they''ve heard of it at all.
Python is the language that I use at home, so I''ve been thinking of
using this to implement the product mentioned above. I''ve personally
experienced the pleasure of programming in it, and as such, I hope that
this will translate to advantage over our competitors (a la Paul
Graham''s argument for Lisp). From my brief look at that url you gave, it looks like you are trying to enter a very crowded market place. You will have to perform a lot
better than your competitors in order to succeed (they have a head
start on you). There''s no way on earth you can do that by using
exactly the same tools as them, so you have to choose better tools.
Almost by definition, the tools that the majority are using are NOT
the best tools for the job. If I were you I''d definitely choose
Python, if only because everyone else is not using it yet.
That said, my experience with Python is limited to toy programs, that I
write myself for my own use. As such, I have several concerns:

1. How scalable is Python? In J2EE, when the load gets really big, we
can resort to clustering. Same goes about availability. Is there
anything that will help here in Python? (Mind, my Python experience is
usually with scripts and console).

2. If there is, what is the transition like from being lightweight to
heavyweight? E.g.: in J2EE we can use Tomcat at first as a lightweight
web container, and scale as necessary using a more powerful appserver.
Is this possible in Python?
If I were you I''d concentrate on creating a website that actually
works. Your chances of creating a website that needs to scale to be
''heavyweight'' are very slim. If you manage to get to that point then
you can start worrying about how to cope with all the money that''s
rolling in ;)

AFAIAA Python scales better than Java as any performance critical
parts can be easily rewritten in C. To spend too much time worrying
over it is premature optimisation though.
3. Have any of you done this before? As in you come from a heavy J2EE
background, and then switch to doing something equally serious in
Python? In your experience, in the end, did you find Python suitable at
all for this domain or you think you should have stuck to J2EE? What
are the pros and cons you discovered?
I don''t have much experience of Java tbh, but I''ve never heard of any
pro''s to using it, except for the fact that it''s more acceptable to
big business and it''s easier to get mediocre programmers for it.
(I''d love to develop in Python and get paid for it finally, but at the
same time I do want to give the money guy the best value for his
money...)

你唯一真正需要的是找到你喜欢做的事情和做的事情。金钱绝对是次要的。如果

您有机会获得使用Python工作的报酬，那就去吧;

即使你失败了，你也会度过幸福的状态。


Ed

The only thing you really need to be happy is to find something you
enjoy doing and to do it. Money is definitely secondary to that. If
you have a chance to be paid for working in Python, then go for it;
even if you fail, you will have spent your days in a happy state.

Ed

嗨Ed，


Ed Singleton写道：

Hi Ed,

Ed Singleton wrote:

就我个人而言，我发现如果你需要出售一种技术，
说它用Java编写是一种优势（因为它是标准的） 。如果它是用Python编写的，你可能会被问到为什么它是用脚本语言编写的。如果他们听说过的话。


是的，我同意。特别是那些在大型

机构中使用那些只能使用企业这个词的东西的封面我的屁股：

：） />
与它们完全相同的工具，因此你必须选择更好的工具。
几乎按照定义，大多数人使用的工具并不是最好的工具。如果我是你，我肯定会选择
Python，只是因为其他人还没有使用它。


是的，这就是我的想法。快速的开发周期和能力

接受变革至关重要。即使在将Python用于小型个人项目后，我确实感觉Java的编程方式是我的编码方式。


但另一方面，还有一个人力问题 - 找到一个Java程序员，这很容易找到（虽然你得到的质量是一个好的）
不同的事情）。 Python程序员更难。

如果我是你，我会集中精力创建一个实际工作的网站。你创建一个需要扩展为重量级网站的机会非常渺茫。如果你设法达到那个目的那么
你可以开始担心如何应付所有滚动的钱;）


你知道什么，这是一个非常好的观点:)）

AFAIAA Python比Java更好，因为任何性能关键的部分都可以很容易地用C重写。花太多时间担心

是的，但这更像是一个Web应用程序 - 我以前从未用Python开发的东西，所以...我我将很快评估Django

- 让我看看它与Tomcat的比较。

Personally I have found that if you need to sell a technology on,
saying it''s written in Java is an advantage generally (because "it''s a
standard"). If it''s written in Python you may get asked why it has
been written in a "scripting language" if they''ve heard of it at all.
Yes, I agree. Especially with those cover-my-ass types in big
institutions who''d only go for things that have the word "Enterprise"
on it :)
exactly the same tools as them, so you have to choose better tools.
Almost by definition, the tools that the majority are using are NOT
the best tools for the job. If I were you I''d definitely choose
Python, if only because everyone else is not using it yet.
Yes, that was what I was thinking. Fast development cycle and ability
to embrace change is crucial here. I do feel the way Java is getting in
the way of my coding even after using Python for small personal
projects.

But then on the other hand, there is a manpower problem--it''s damn easy
to find a Java programmer (although the quality that you get is a
different matter). Python programmers are more difficult.
If I were you I''d concentrate on creating a website that actually
works. Your chances of creating a website that needs to scale to be
''heavyweight'' are very slim. If you manage to get to that point then
you can start worrying about how to cope with all the money that''s
rolling in ;)
You know what, this is a very good point :))
AFAIAA Python scales better than Java as any performance critical
parts can be easily rewritten in C. To spend too much time worrying
over it is premature optimisation though.
Yes, but this is more of a web application though--something that I''ve
never developed in Python before, so... I''ll be evaluating Django
shortly--let me see how it compares to Tomcat.

（我是我喜欢用Python开发并最终获得报酬，但是在同一时间我确实想给这个钱给那个钱最有价值的人......）

(I''d love to develop in Python and get paid for it finally, but at the
same time I do want to give the money guy the best value for his
money...)

你唯一真正需要的是找到你喜欢做的事情并做到这一点。金钱绝对是次要的。如果你有机会获得用Python工作的报酬，那就去吧;
即使你失败了，你也会度过幸福的状态。

The only thing you really need to be happy is to find something you
enjoy doing and to do it. Money is definitely secondary to that. If
you have a chance to be paid for working in Python, then go for it;
even if you fail, you will have spent your days in a happy state.

是的，我有机会这样做，如果我设法通过，但

同时我想给那些资助我们最好的人价值

他的钱可能。 （如果 - 如果 - 这意味着我必须使用J2EE，我会做

吧。）


谢谢，

Ray

Ed

Yeah, I have the chance to do that if I manage to get this through, but
at the same time I do want to give the guy who funds us the best value
possible for his money. (If--If--it means I have to use J2EE, I will do
it.)

Thanks,
Ray

Ed

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