C ++的未来是什么？ [英] What is the future of C++?
问题描述
我不相信C＃是C ++的未来。我也不相信
在标准库中添加两千个新的库函数是C ++的未来。但是C ++的未来是什么？这是一个很好的编程
语言可以得到吗？
像你们这么多人一样，我编写了语音识别器，图像识别
系统，国际象棋程序的一部分，使用STL的大量数字代码，以及用C ++编写的
吨其他应用程序，（甚至是时间关键的固件
应用程序） 。自1997年以来，我从来没有错过任何一种语言功能。
但是在各种编译器中C ++的糟糕实现无疑是最糟糕的。
最痛苦的。
无论如何，有没有办法改进C ++？ - 对于我们当前的计算机体系结构，我认为它是完美的
编程语言。我甚至想要相信未来的增强功能。只能对这种语言的美丽产生负面影响。不？
Gregor
I do not believe that C# is the future of C++. I also do not believe that
adding two thousand new library functions to the standard library is the
future of C++. But what is the future of C++? Is it as good as a programming
language can get?
Like so many of you, I programmed speech recognizers, image recognition
systems, a portion of a chess program, lots of numeric code using STL, and
tons of other applications in C++, (even firmware for time critical
applications). Since 1997, I never missed even one feature in the language.
The poor implementation of C++ in various compilers however was certainly
outermost painful.
Anyway, is there a way to improve C++? - I think it''s the perfect
programming language for our current computer architectures. I am even
tempted to believe that future "enhancements" can only negatively impact the
beauty of this language. No?
Gregor
推荐答案
GTO写道：
我不知道相信C＃是C ++的未来。
我认为没有人这样做。有些人认为C ++已经走到了尽头，像C＃作为未来的语言，或者C ++ / CLI是未来的C ++ / b
。 br />
我也不相信在标准库中添加两千个新的库函数是C ++的未来。
标准的下一个版本将会有很多新的库函数，
主要来自C99。如果你不想，你不必使用它们。
新的C ++库主要围绕新的类模板。
但是C ++的未来是什么？它是否像编程语言一样好？
像你们这么多人一样，我编写了语音识别器，图像识别系统，国际象棋程序的一部分，很多使用STL的数字代码，以及C ++中的大量其他应用程序（甚至用于时间关键应用程序的固件）。自1997年以来，我从未错过任何语言中的一个
功能。然而，各种
编译器中C ++的糟糕实现肯定是最痛苦的。
无论如何，有没有办法改进C ++？ - 我认为它是我们当前计算机体系结构的完美编程语言。我甚至想要相信未来的改进。只能消极地影响这种语言的美感。没有？
在使用
当前主题行的消息中听到这种观点肯定令人耳目一新。我期待有人认为C ++已经落后了时间，并且注定要濒临灭绝。
你不应该担心C ++会变得更糟，因为标准委员会对后向兼容性非常敏感。如果你不喜欢新的东西，你可以在很大程度上忽略它们。
但是，除了标准的大量增加之外库，有很多令人兴奋的下一版C ++的可能性，包括移动语义，
Gregor
I do not believe that C# is the future of C++.
I don''t think anyone does. Some people think that C++ is on its last legs, with
languages like C# as the languages of the future, or that C++/CLI is the future
of C++.
I also do not believe
that adding two thousand new library functions to the standard
library is the future of C++.
There will be lots of new library functions in the next version of the standard,
largely from C99. You don''t have to use them if you don''t want to.
New C++ libraries are mostly centered around new class templates.
But what is the future of C++? Is it as
good as a programming language can get?
Like so many of you, I programmed speech recognizers, image
recognition systems, a portion of a chess program, lots of numeric
code using STL, and tons of other applications in C++, (even firmware
for time critical applications). Since 1997, I never missed even one
feature in the language. The poor implementation of C++ in various
compilers however was certainly outermost painful.
Anyway, is there a way to improve C++? - I think it''s the perfect
programming language for our current computer architectures. I am even
tempted to believe that future "enhancements" can only negatively
impact the beauty of this language. No?
It''s certainly refreshing to hear this point of view in a message with the
current subject line. I was expecting someone compaining that C++ had fallen
behind the times and was doomed to extinction.
You shouldn''t fear that C++ will be made worse, since the standards committee is
very sensitive to backward compatibility. If you don''t like new feartures, you
can ignore them for the most part.
However, in addition to lots of additions to the standard library, there are
many exciting possibility for the next version of C++, including move semantics,
a module system and threading.
Gregor
Jonathan
Jonathan
GTO写道：
无论如何，有没有办法改进C ++ ？ - 我认为它是我们当前计算机体系结构的完美编程语言。我是b $ b甚至想要相信未来的增强功能只能否定
会影响这种语言的美感。不是吗？
Anyway, is there a way to improve C++? - I think it''s the perfect
programming language for our current computer architectures. I am even tempted to believe that future "enhancements" can only negatively impact the beauty of this language. No?
您可能想在comp.std.c ++中讨论这个问题，其中许多C ++
委员会成员都在这里：这是推动C ++前进的人群
（它是开放的，即每个人都可以通过加入
a国家标准化机构参与其中）。
我不认为C ++是完美的，虽然我认为它是目前可用的最佳
选择。你说你在使用模板，但是
显然你没有实现它们：在模板环境中
我发现最迫切的需求但是还有其他的没有相关
也是模板。从我的角度来看，有一套重要的
区域
需要修理（而且根本不是图书馆问题）：
- 并发需要集成到语言中。这个
中的大部分都是以库的形式出现的，但是需要完成一些基本的东西，比如需要完成C ++内存模型的大修核心语言。
- 模板和元编程需要修复。有各种各样的问题
像模板typedef，类似于typeof （我当前的
方向名称为decl_type），可能是概念
支持，
更多结构化类型能力检测，和一大堆其他
的东西。
- 类型信息，都在编译时（再次用于
模板）
和运行时（即类似于反射的东西）。
- 移动语义允许非POD对象有效移动
之间
位置（例如，当返回一个物体或调整
''std :: vector''时）。
这只是哪个在考虑对C ++进行必要的更改时，会立即出现在我的脑海中。其他可能会想到其他的东西，并考虑
更重要（例如，对于许多人来说，可选的垃圾收集率很高）。提出了许多建议（请参阅< http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/>上的
论文部分。得到一个
的概述）以及更多半成品的想法正在委员会中传播
成员。提案和想法的范围从或多或少的小修改到
而不是重大变化。
在任何情况下，C ++委员会都清楚知道某些变化是需要
来保持C ++的吸引力。例如，使用多处理器或
超线程
CPU在主流市场中变得普遍（我猜想
平均值
桌面电脑在十年内将拥有不止一个CPU）支持
for
多线程是必不可少的。该标准的下一个版本是
预定
在这十年中的某个时间可用 - 而且它更可能是
它
比2009年更早......
-
< mailto：di *********** @ yahoo。 COM> < http://www.dietmar-kuehl.de/>
< http://www.contendix.com> - 软件开发&咨询
You might want to discuss this in comp.std.c++ where many of the C++
committee members hang out: this is the crowd which moves C++ forward
(and it is open, i.e. everybody can participate essentially by joining
a national standardization body).
I don''t think that C++ is perfect, although I think it is the best
choice currently available. You said you were using templates but
apparently you weren''t implementing them: in the context of templates
the most dire needs I have found arise but there are others not related
to templates, too. From my perspective there is a set of important
areas
which need fixing (and which aren''t library issues at all):
- Concurrency needs to be integrated into the language. Much of this
will
be in form of a library but some essential stuff like an overhaul of
the C++ memory model has to be done in the core language.
- Templates and meta programming need fixing. There are various issues
like template typedefs, something like "typeof" (I the current
direction goes under the name of "decl_type"), possibly concept
support,
more structured type capability detection, and a whole bunch of other
stuff.
- Type Information, both at compile time (again for the use in
templates)
and at run time (i.e. something akin to reflection).
- Move semantics allowing non-POD objects to be moved efficiently
between
locations (e.g. when returning an object or when resizing a
''std::vector'').
This is just which immediately pops to my head when thinking about
necessary changes to C++. Other may think of other stuff and consider
it
more important (e.g. optional garbage collection rates high for many
people). There is a host of proposals being made (have a look at the
"papers" section at <http://www.open-std.org/jtc1/sc22/wg21/> to get an
overview) and more halfbaked ideas being circulated amoung committee
members. The proposals and ideas range from more or less minor fixes to
rather major changes.
In any case, the C++ committee is well aware that some change is needed
to keep C++ attractive. For example, with multi-processors or
hyperthreaded
CPUs becoming common in the mainstream market (I''d guess that the
average
desktop computer in a decade will have more than just one CPU) support
for
multi-threading is essential. The next revision of the standard is
scheduled
to become available sometime in this decade - and it is more likely
that it
is 2009 than anything earlier...
--
<mailto:di***********@yahoo.com> <http://www.dietmar-kuehl.de/>
<http://www.contendix.com> - Software Development & Consulting
关于移动语义，我认为C ++已经支持某些类型的昂贵的移动。对象（请参阅复制构造函数等）。但是为了进一步优化C ++，它可能会派上用场。或者我们不应该只是将它放在优化编译器来进行这种工作吗？
关于线程，你的意思是支持多线程吗？ （a la JAVA）？
如果是的话，我宁愿不把这个添加到C ++，因为支持
多线程概念是系统架构的细节而不是
语言。但也许你指的是别的东西。
Gregor
" Jonathan Turkanis" < TE ****** @ kangaroologic.com>在消息中写道
news：34 ************* @ individual.net ...
Regarding "move semantics", I thought that C++ already supports some sort of
moving of "expensive" objects (see copy constructor etc.). But to further
optimize C++, it might come handy. Or should we not just leave it up to
optimizing compilers to do this kind of work?
Regarding "threading", do you mean support for multithreading (a la JAVA)?
If yes, I would rather not see this added to C++ since support for
multithreaded concepts are details of the system''s architecture and not the
language. But maybe you were referring to something else.
Gregor
"Jonathan Turkanis" <te******@kangaroologic.com> wrote in message
news:34*************@individual.net...
GTO写道：
我不相信C＃是C ++的未来。
I do not believe that C# is the future of C++.
我认为没有人这样做。有些人认为C ++已经走到了尽头，用C＃语言作为未来的语言，或者C ++ / CLI是C ++的未来。
I don''t think anyone does. Some people think that C++ is on its last legs,
with
languages like C# as the languages of the future, or that C++/CLI is the
future
of C++.
我也不相信在标准库中添加两千个新的库函数是C ++的未来。
I also do not believe
that adding two thousand new library functions to the standard
library is the future of C++.
<
标准的下一版本将会有很多新的库函数，主要来自C99。如果你不想，你不必使用它们。
新的C ++库主要集中在新的类模板上。
There will be lots of new library functions in the next version of the
standard,
largely from C99. You don''t have to use them if you don''t want to.
New C++ libraries are mostly centered around new class templates.
但是C ++的未来是什么？它是否像编程语言一样好？
像你们这么多人一样，我编写了语音识别器，图像识别系统，国际象棋程序的一部分，很多使用STL的数字代码，以及C ++中的大量其他应用程序（甚至用于时间关键应用程序的固件）。自1997年以来，我从未错过任何语言中的一个
功能。然而，各种
编译器中C ++的糟糕实现肯定是最痛苦的。
无论如何，有没有办法改进C ++？ - 我认为它是我们当前计算机体系结构的完美编程语言。我甚至想要相信未来的改进。只能消极地影响这种语言的美感。不是吗？
But what is the future of C++? Is it as
good as a programming language can get?
Like so many of you, I programmed speech recognizers, image
recognition systems, a portion of a chess program, lots of numeric
code using STL, and tons of other applications in C++, (even firmware
for time critical applications). Since 1997, I never missed even one
feature in the language. The poor implementation of C++ in various
compilers however was certainly outermost painful.
Anyway, is there a way to improve C++? - I think it''s the perfect
programming language for our current computer architectures. I am even
tempted to believe that future "enhancements" can only negatively
impact the beauty of this language. No?
在使用
当前主题行的消息中听到这种观点肯定令人耳目一新。我期待有人认为C ++已经落后于时代，注定要灭绝。
你不应该担心C ++会变得更糟，因为标准
委员会对向后兼容性非常敏感。如果你不喜欢新的东西，
你可以在很大程度上忽略它们。
但是，除了标准库的大量添加外，还有<下一版C ++有很多令人兴奋的可能性，包括移动语义，模块系统和线程。
It''s certainly refreshing to hear this point of view in a message with the
current subject line. I was expecting someone compaining that C++ had
fallen
behind the times and was doomed to extinction.
You shouldn''t fear that C++ will be made worse, since the standards
committee is
very sensitive to backward compatibility. If you don''t like new feartures,
you
can ignore them for the most part.
However, in addition to lots of additions to the standard library, there
are
many exciting possibility for the next version of C++, including move
semantics,
a module system and threading.
Gregor
Jonathan
Jonathan
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